got some sheep - Page 9

I hope both of us misunderstood...doesn´t make sense to me, but the "vibrations" haven´t been positive for quite some time...

I'm sorry it came down to this. I try to only comment on threads that I have some experience with, I don't google them first. I didn't intend to "heckle" Joan.

I wonder how many fools will be "lol" ing when this site is gone? I also wonder why that site has strict personal attack rules but attacks against PDB and the admin here are allowed to stand unchallenged. Care to answer Koots?

Lastly, I wonder why one of the founding people of that site comes to PDB to fight with others here?

Not sure anyone even cares at this point in the thread, but I have a GSD with a lot of eye. She will gladly hold stock by just using her eye. If you've ever seen a Border Collie do it, that's how she does as well (although head is held slightly higher). She's never been the type to dash in and take prey bites like some of my others, who are more hyped in prey mode, but she is quick to snap at or grab stock that challenge her. I've hoped she'd pass this on to pups, but so far she has not. She has passed on some good herding instinct and ability, but none of had her eye on stock.

I have in fact worked numerous pups out of her. I've also worked many dogs not related and they have just not compared to this female or her pups.

TY Ramage, I agree it is pretty rarely found in GSDs, but DOES
crop up from time to time. Whether more of them had "Eye" back
in 1899 and how necessary it was for herding/tending is what
fascinates me. Having, as I posted, seen dogs in Wales working
sheep but not displaying it, I am curious about both the strength
of folklaw regarding it in collies and the reality of working sheep
with any breed, comparing performance with & without it.
Comment from anybody with extensive experience of working
sheep out of economic necessity, not just as a pastime for their
dogs, would be welcome (but as I said above, unlikely, sadly !).
I'd really like to hear how it stacks up, from people who have used
a variety of dogs over the years. Not that I am knocking the use
of a few sheep as a pastime for one's dogs, or all-breed Herding
Classes as run in the States - the only classes here in the UK are
for collies, and more reflective of the terrain, as far as I'm aware -
nor Competitions on the skill. Anything we give our working-breed
dogs to DO is fine by me. JMO.

Collies, BC,s are used in trials so much simply because no other breed bar a few rare exceptions are competitive. BC free events in herding and agility occur just to give other breed owners a chance.

The unregistered working BC is the supreme working dog of this age. My old IPO club opened membership up and BC owners got their BH and tracking titles after 2 weeks if joining, it was embarrassing. They did not give a separate obedience title but they let them dummy trial and gave them a score, they topped that as well.

GSD folk talk about their dogs disciplining tough sheep, good dogs dominate sheep and cattle without any biting, barking or motion, weak dogs have to bite.

There is no comparison between the two breeds. The BC was bred to do just that herding. While the GSD was bred to herd/tend and protect against predators/cattle thiefs and even serve as PP when the shepherd turns his hard work into cash. That is versatility, and requires a differend temperament and aproach to get the job dun. The eye is more or less prone to the BC, while the same can occasionly be found in a GSD.  I have four GDS all from KNPV WL and zeven donkeys. Only one, my female displays a BC like aproach to the herd using eye focus.Still studies have shown that there is a significant difference between BC that are raised among the herd and one raised apart. The first is more likely to grow up to become a herd guardian and the other a herder. Ofcourse we knew that allready.

HM asked about BC's.