Where are Old style lines in America still available? - Page 9

The problem with service dog/ IPO is .... well I have a service dog and we are working on our IPO titles and service dog people are convinced that makes them killers to work them. I get a ton of flack about it. I dont care.... My dog has been working in public as a service dog while also training towards his titles and he is 100 percent safe and stable. In order to get his breed survey we must have the working title, we cant just do the obedience and tracking titles and not the bitework to prove him. Just being a service dog is not considered a working dog and rightly so because lets face it the system needs revamping and a certification process put in place for all the dogs that do not have what it takes to be a service dog and or fake handlers that do NOT have qualifying disabilities. The goverment does NOT pay for our service dogs though they might be paying for some vetrans dogs for PTSD and medical dogs though I dont know enough about that. As it stands there is no service dog certification in the states. The programs want to stop the sale of vests to the general public because they sell their "vests" on the dogs they sell with their specific branding and it is all marketing. Service dog providing trainers and groups are also not certified in any way. Serivce dogs are not even required by law to wear vests, it just really cuts down on people challanging you to put one on your dog. This is why it is ridiculous that service dog programs go after the vests and not the fakers by using mis information in all the news articles. So many mis interpet the laws regarding service dog and bite work training because they falsy believe if a dog has bite work training it must mean it is aggressive. The law says no dog that is aggressive/biter can be service dog not that a service dog cannot have bite training. My dog has proven he can do both, and did not attack the two young adult males that attacked me and cut my hair, because I did not give him the go ahead since my life was not in danger physically and my dog would have been crucified if I had let him do it. We used to use sch titled dogs in search and rescue before here in the states that became taboo. It is just a sport.... people that dont know anything about it are the problem. So now you are unable to prove your dog if you have service dogs and or search and rescue unless you fight against it all the way like me....... 

 

Have to see what they (government or people) are willing to pay for:

There is little to no value in current American Showline breeding stock in temperment, structure and certainly work ethic......it's sad but that culture of breeding for extremes has created an unfortunate bottle neck.......I personally think it will go the way of the British sub type whereupon some new fad will catch on and breeders that don't consider the whole dog will ruin another era of GSD's....

Barkroz, I am sure PDB members can come up with numerous exceptions to your statement. Let's not go there, okay? The lines definitely aren't what we'd like them to be, but to say they are worthless just isn't correct!

 

For the ones not infusing german lines into their american always bred stock, I agree with you. The chest gets deeper, the body narrower, pasterns more horizontal to allow a big stride though a weak one, no drive off power from the haunches, no turning capability, but the most sad of all is how flighty their minds have become.... and not working is not a help. It's funny that the ones who show gsds American style need a working dog they dont use their american line show gsd to do the work, instead they get another gsd that is non American showline. Some of them infusing new lines and blood are becoming less extreme and were starting to pick up again to a good dog, but the that wagon seemed to loose a wheel again. I miss my families 70's Am line gsds. 
 

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Trommel Shepherds.

Dr Graves produced more than one Am Ch AND Sch titled dog out of old am showlines and import german working lines waaaaay back in the 1980's.

Dirk and Degen are on this database, although Dirk's picture is incorrect.

Dr Graves am lines were completely free of the freak-of-nature "Lance".



 

Trommel was one of the few kennels to use Bodo v. Lierberg, instead of Lance. I didn't know they were still breeding.

BTW, Valliantdale dogs are Lance-free, too. IIRC, the dogs are mostly line-bred on Yoncalla's Mike.

However, I've heard some of the current dogs from this kennel have temperament issues.

Well, when I think of Trommel I think of them the other way around, they selected working dogs that also looked good, were clean/correct/sound and got Champion titles and/or points on them.

"Well, when I think of Trommel I think of them the other way around, they selected working dogs that also looked good, were clean/correct/sound and got Champion titles and/or points on them."

 I agree
 

Dr Graves was doing both..  importing and showing (and finishing) german dogs, and also showing/titling/finishing his own american bred dogs.

I spent quite a few hours on the phone with him (this way WAY before internet luxury) discussing his program..  etc.

Somewhere, I have a video detailing his work, complete with pictures/music/old tape, narrated by him..  I hope its still intact..  I have been meaning to digitize it.

He was unique to me in his approach to breeding balance, along with Mary Coppage of Spezialblut.


Bodo v Grafental also figured into Dr Graves' lines, which was why I selected that as one of my early foundation stock dogs....  that and also his persistance to OFA certify ALL of his breeding stock.. something almost never done consistently in America back then.

Mary also did that..  and looked at the hip laxity (pennhip style) in her early dogs.. 

I am looking for the article I know is here somewhere in the house..  Dr Graves either wrote it, or was interviewed.

Internet is wonderful tool, but SO much is lost to today's up-coming newbies because BOOKS are nearly obsolete.