DDR, Czech and West Germany working bloodline - Page 9

Hans, yes, but how close is todays "DDR-type" from the DDR-dogs" that influenced the breed in the 70-80s? Looking at famous DDR dogs like lord or robby they don´t seems to differ so much from west dogs at that time, or even some west dogs today. Which make sense I guess because how different could they really be from a few generations breeding in DDR compared to west.

Johan. The the GS breed is  developing and thus no, they do not resemble them too  much. But that is not necessarily bad. If the breeders do the right thing and many do, then we have better dogs with less faults and  they are more  versatile. 
You must have in mind is the larger or the largest possible picture. 
Totally versatile, working dog with great health and structure. Forget geography.  Also do not forget that  society changes and needs different dogs. GSD is capable to keep up with these changes. If the society is gentle but need serious protectors then GSD can be that. Back in DDR those dogs were very hard , hard to handle, almost dangerous.  Large then now  percentage of them were nervy basket cases. Bad elbows and hips were very high. Missing testicles were more common then now. Not all old is good and new is bad and vise versa. You must look at the total dog for the  needs of today. 
Prager Hans

Prager quote " Back in DDR those dogs were very hard , hard to handle, almost dangerous. Large then now percentage of them were nervy basket cases. Bad elbows and hips were very high. Missing testicles were more common then now."

Hans you are making some serious allegations against DDR dogs back then...
Are not many of the Czech lines from across the border "East Germany" where the DDR dogs were bred....

Bad elbows, who x-rayed elbows back then....

I'll agree with you that yes, they were bred for being very hard because the need for those dogs existed at that time ......and today imo, it exists even more...

 Those are not alegations but just logical facts. I am talking from personal experience. When the Berlin wall fall down the German Gov was selling these dogs in batches of 10 for as low as $500. I have seen some of these dogs. There were some good but also high percentage  were not.  I also know that form others who had direct contact with any of these dogs. As far as  z Pohranicni straze Czech dogs goes they used less then 10 dogs from DDR. These dogs mainly represented each of the 5 male lines.  These were cream of the crop Jiri could put the hands on. They were basicly :
Treu vom Schaferstoltz,
Victor Ederquelle,
Bojar Schoterhof,
Ivo  v Buschecke,
Whisky v Ritterberg,
Bero v Friedersdorfe Fleur, and  
Gomo v Scheiferschloss. 
They were the best Czech could get and it was not easy. As mater of fact Jiri is talking about it on his yearly seminar. It is quite a story. 
However if you compare those dogs with today dogs which we breed now, then the good traits are preserved and many faults are pushed into background.  That is what proper selective breeding does. Thus today dogs if bred properly by knowledgeable breeders who care about these lines  are better then the olden days dogs. 

As far as how hard the dogs were then or not I would like to say that hardness and aggression of the dogs back then would put you nearthe  top of a liability list of every insurance company in US. The culture then was different . Dogs are product of the culture which breed them. If you would bring some for the dogs  into today society 99.9% of people could not handle them. Thus what is important now is to breed hard dogs but dogs which are easier to handle and are more user friendly.  We still have the olden days super aggressive dogs and use them in breeding but they are not for sale to general public. Germans call them Gangster dogs and they are used to toughen up the line. But they absolutely can not be sold to general public or, in most  cases even to Law Enforcement.
Culture changed and unless  someone lived there it is hard to explain. 

As far as elbows go  people back then did not live on the trees and when the dog was limping they x rayed him and they would see bad elbows.  Now we x ray elbows as a routine and thus even from this point the dogs are getting better. 
Prager Hans

Some useful info, Hans...
Not the post on the elbows, the 1 before that...

Thank you for taking the time........

On 1 of your previous posts you mentioned that the true working bloodline should not be mixed with the sporting bloodlines...
If you don't mind, why do you say this...just a brief answer is fine....i'm very curious.....not snipe hunting as I was previously accused of...
Just a simple question...hopefully expecting a simple answer....

I have a question for Prager about working withdogs that have high protection drive, but have lower threshhold and prey drive.  Since I see participants of this discussion settling into the usual camps of
what a qualities a dog should have for sport, I would llike to hear from people who have successfully trained dogs for sport that have higher protection yet also have lower threshhold and prey drive, than the typical top sport GSD has.  Based on what I have seen Prager post over the years, it seems to me that there are some ways to do this consistantly, but I don't see the specifics discussed much here on the forum.

Aadilah.I do not remember to say that but probably what I meant to say is that  you should not mistake or interchange term sport and work freely. Meaning a lot of sport people in SchH call their sport  dogs working dogs . That is not necessarioly so.   Sport and work are different terms and define different group of  abilities.  
 Every work dog should be able to do sport to lesser or greatedr degree. But not every sport dog is able to do work in every day life. 
If done properly and carefully I am not against mixing them during breeding process though. 

momosgarage. Define lower threshold. Threshold of what? 

As far as elbows go  people back then did not live on the trees and when the dog was limping they x rayed him and they would see bad elbows

My favorite comment of the week. :)

Christine