WOW, I HADN'T NOTICED, BUT IT IS TRUE. - Page 9

I think I should quit thinking so much..............But this is my next wonder--IF Adam and Eve were truly the first people and IF that part of the world was truly the cradle of civilization as some say.............then when this was going on only a few thousand years ago--where in the heck was the rest of the world? I mean, we are never mentioned in the Bible--good ole US and you Hundmutter across the big pond. So maybe we're exempt anyway from all the demons we are going to have to face for being non believers. I believe in one scripture it says to go into all the world and all the nations--what world and what nations? Is it the world as they knew it then? Actually it was a very small area and very few nations. Next wonder--if carbon dating and that type of stuff is all a bunch of hogwash why is it labeled as such? Also if the roman Nation and all those places I was talking about just a line or two ago were the only places, then right here in the good ole USA where did the Viking remains come from? They have found them as far south as Oklahoma. Where DID the mounds come from? How old really are the Mayan ruins, their calendars and all that? Where did those people come from? Even in the Morman "Bible" it is discussed that people did come here and met the original Indians. Why is only one religion right when all peoples had their own forms of religion including worship, weddings and funerals? How could every religion be wrong? If only the Catholic church was right, why did people escape it for freedom of religion? I mean there are so many things to think about and when you start pondering then it makes you KNOW that Christianity is only a small part of the picture. Why is my Creator wrong and yours is right? Shtal if you answer any of this please don't quote any more Scripture to me. I'd like to see a healthy discussion and some open minds--these are things I think about and wonder about.

I just don't want to discuss this with you but I will do let you know that God (Father) hath send his son Jesus Christ only to house of Israel and NOT the whole world, his mission was to save his people ONLY. Matthew 15:24 (Jesus said himself). But he made answer and said, I was sent only to the wandering sheep of the house of Israel. (NOT the whole world)

Is just after Christ, Apostle Paul came and went to preach to gentiles...


Even Peter was also surprised about gentiles, because he believed Salvation is only for israelites. Acts 10:34-35 Then Peter said, Truly, I see clearly that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation, the man who has fear of him and does righteousness is pleasing to him.



Shtal.

Well I guess your main reason for not wanting to discuss Vonissk's points with her, Shtal, is that you can't answer
her questions.  Either off your own words, or by the Cut Paste  & Shout method.  (Won't work the latter way of course
because as she points out, the Bible just doesn't cover the rest of the real world.)

So we can only regard the word of your lord as pertaining to the Israelites ... ever ?  Except [Paul's surprise notwithstanding]
you also quote from the New Testament sometimes, do you not ?

Interesting.  Now does that mean the people of Israel's tribe wherever they were living;  or all the people living in the old
area of Israel, no matter what 'tribe';  or people who ended up living in the post-WWII  version of Israel  ???

And your last bit about "in every nation",  the (man hoho) who has fear of god and does righteousness is 'pleasing' -
now does that mean anyone who does 'righteousness' ONLY PROVIDED THEY fear god ?  Or can we be saved from
being 'uprooted' by only doing righteous things whatever we believe in (or don't believe in) ???   If the former it seems a bit
unfair of your god, and once again likely to make belief in him unpopular with those who think things through ...

I just don't want to discuss this with you but by golly I will quote more scripture to you and throw some places in the Bible to read. You know Shtal you got mad at me because I put that poster up about Jesus saying nothing about homosexuality--you started quoting this and that. Listen to me, the things you put up were quotes from his deciples--there is not one word in Jesus's words about homosexuality or pro choise--I know because my Bible has Jesus's words in red. What Matthew or whoever said he said is hearsay or better known as he said she said and I don't accept that. Kind of like that game where you have a group of people and you start at one end whispering in someone's ear and by the time it gets to the end of the circle it is a totally different concept. And what about on the page over where you put those videos up--on the top of the wheat vs tares video you wrote something about conversation is good. So now you don't want to discuss anything with me. I believe that is a contridiction in itself. Let me tell you something, I am not the demon from hell sent here to give you a hard time. I am a deep thinking person and I ask questions because I want to know. Why is it a crime for me to want to know? You refuse to discuss this because unless you are quoting something you haven't the knowledge to dicuss it. I thought to become a preacher you had to go to theology school where you were taught to discuss these kinds of things. You haven't had time to go to school. According to the law of your state are you able to legally marry people? I believe that's another part of it. So you are just a self proclaimed preacher? Ah yep starting to make more sense to me now. By the way I am not an athiest, I have my own Creator. His name is Hattak Abe Binelli which loosely translates to the man who sits above and sees everything. I pray to him and I thank him every day for my blessings. And if I go to hell for believing that then by golly I will be up there with my ancestors. And another thought, how could we go to hell anyway when these thousands of years ago we never knew we were heathens and savages and doing the wrong things? I believe in the Bible it says that any sin can be forgiven but denying the beliefs of God and Jesus. If that is true then I am going anyway. Again I believe there is a big difference between beleiving in a certain diety and spirituality. I consider myself very spiritual. There is a song I consider my personal song and sort of how it descrines me and my thoughts. It is Called "Look At Us" by John Trudell and can be found on You Tube--it is also considered to be the AIM theme song. One of the things it says is God what about these Christians. we have not known of you very long-you should send Jesus back to them and rather than killing him they should listen to him and those lines really strike a chord with me. And there is more but I can't think of the words right now and I don't want to be misquoting things. I'm done for now unless I think of more things to query about. LOL
By the way Hundmutter more good thoughtful questions. Love a deep thinking person...............When we die they make us head of the thinking squad. ..................

Thanks for reminding me, Vonissk, that an awful lot of trouble has been visited on peoples in the past
by 'western' folk perporting to be Christians and doing really disgusting things 'in the name of god'.

But in order to accept Shtal's god of 'now' and earn that celestial reward (and avoid being uprooted as 'tares')
we would have to simply forget all about that, I suppose.  That is another reason i prefer to be a non-believer,
myself - though thank you for my inclusion in the bit about the 'thinking squad' - tell you right now, I know next
to nothing about your beliefs, but if I HAD to believe in anything, or I turn out to be wrong about there being no
afterlife, I'd sure as hell take your version over the kind of mumbo-jumbo that comes from listening to Shtal
(or most 'organised' religion, come to that).

Shtal, I am impressed with your beginning sense of humility. It has its own power. Jesus knew that the best, I think. Think always... there is a time and place for everything.....

Why thank you Hundmutter. It's any ez form of living my version of spirituality and what I have been taught by holy men. You treat your fellow man as you wish to be treated, you thank your creator--as you view him--every day for your blessing, you be kind to Mother Earth for she sustains all living things, you go in the sweat lodge once in a while and not only thank your creator for yourself, the sweat, children and elders, and cleanse your mind and body of toxins and a few other little things like trying to keep an open mind, listen to your elders rather than running off at the mouth and above all have respect. There are no intones of threats--you cannot tell another person what is going to happen to them because you are not in their shoes. And DUH I am not talking about robbing a bank or stupid things like that.

Another thing I wanted to point out about that video--wheat and the tares. The speaker tells the little story about how to leave the tares growing until it is ready to harvest and then pull them aside, bundle them and burn them. As soon as he tells that little story, then he repeats it almost word for word. Did he think we didn't get it the first time? Now I know a lot of the Bible is written in parables so I sort of see where this is going. BUT from a farmer's or a home gardners perspective that is crazy. You pull the weeds (same thing as tares) when they are young. If you don't they will grow up and practically take over your garden. Weeds are tough, they can grow with no rain or anything. I can prove that--we have had a terrible drought this summer but I damn sure had weeds a foot tall with brown grass all around them. So you let the tares grow up with the weeds and you have to do double work sorting them out at harvest time to bundle and burn them. See the parable is the tares are the non believers. Why would you let them stay with the believers? Wouldn't you be afraid they would poison the minds of the believers? And in the Ten Commandments it says Thou shalt not kill? Then how can one justify bundling up the non believers and burning them? Organized religion is not for me either--it is a method of nothing more than control and brainwashing. Shtal said something a few posts back about getting mad when people talk about the Bible. One is not supposed to get mad but love and pray even harder for that person. I am not perfect--nowhere near to it. I have faults. One of my big ones is holding grudges--I have some I have held for almost 40 years and some a lot longer than that. Some are against dead people. Isn't that dumb? I know in reality it is. But that's the way my mind works and rather than wasting time asking my creator to take them away, I ask for wisdom in dealing with them. In other words not letting them consume me. Accepting responsibility for my part on what led up to the situation that caused the grudges. As I said at another time the biggest word in the English language is acceptance. Accepting how you are--pros and cons--and working from there is how I exist on a day to day basis. ...................I tell you Hundmutter you will end up the great thinker and the questions will be answered regardless of how you believe............I personally think there's not a damn thing wrong with your queries and feelings..........but then look at me, I'm in charge of nothing but dog poop. LOL.......

Organized religion, that would be the sticking point. Don't care much for it myself. The idea of God as the creator, has to have at least as much as a scientific view. Because always, science can only observe God.   

Yes Vonissk, there are all kinds of inconsistencies just in this one parable Shtal put up for us to believe in.
Same with just about every darn quote;  well, I get frustrated with being side-tracked, with people querying
all the passages he threw out at us, especially since when he's asked any question relating to them he will
not deign to reply properly, but just chucks another quote - and often his interpretation of that quote,
but which still does not address the questions - into the threads.

I cannot work out whether he realises how annoying this is, but doesn't care;  or if he genuinely is so
obtuse and obsessive that he doesn't see it, and people taking to insulting him completely mystifies him ?
[I'd ask him directly, but don't believe he will answer that question either.]

After all, it isn't as if his version of religion is so attractive above all others;  there's a lot in Buddhism, and in
the writings of Confusius, that is clearly ethical and very attractive if one does feel a need to have a faith, for
example.   Why would one prefer to believe in his angry, jealous, frequently uncaring deity, when we have
choices ?

I am always hearing atheists slagged off by the 'religious right' for being bull-headed and telling everyone
else what (not) to believe;  but when we merely ask questions of those who defend religion so strenuously
and they can't or won't give us answers  -  who is it that's being bull-headed ?

Oh well it gives us something to talk about anyway...............