Schutzhunds obsession with extreme prey drive. - Page 9

There is also another factor....many helpers can only train one type of dog.  The helpers who can successfully work different drives and balance the drives are few and far between.  I have seen many promising bitches who fall apart and are cast off around 15 months of age, prior to active aggression coming into play.  Too much whip, not giving the dog time to respond, bitches convinced the minute they drop the sleeve...the pressure comes back.  Too hard to watch.

When looking at dogs work, I always look at the helper/training prior to having an opinion on the dog.  Which brings up another point. Too many helpers label a dog instead of just training them. Example.... Many helpers tell handlers when their dog isn't biting hard enough.  What can the handler do about that??  Good helpers don't say anything about it...they just fix it.  I have seen promising dogs wasted due to a frustrated helper labelling the dog and calling it quits.

I always control the training on my dog.  I don't let anything happen to them which is inappropriate for the dog at their age, without inhibiting their progression of training.

 

 

I would like someone who has trained top sch competition GSDs to tell me if these dogs had to have "over the top" prey drive in order to win, or could a GSD with only moderate prey drive win?  And is it necessary for a top sch competitor to be hyperactive? 

no one who owns personal protection family dogs or house dogs wants a hyper ative dog thats worthless someone will break in while ur dog in its kennel


or while ur watching tv on the computer on the phone a pp dog or a protection dog needs to be with you u all the time to be effecive ther hae been cases i know of where someone woman and men have been brutally assaulted while their protection dogs were "put away" i wouldnt call them protection dogs more like a sport dog cause while ur home they are not away the bad guy is going to suprise u hes  not going to say oh wait go get ur dog so we can make things even ok


a dog that is lose in the house should detect someone snooping about specially when u let it out to use the bathroom but while at night they should have free run of your house i dont plan on crating  at all *only in emergency)my dog past 2 otherwise it will really suck.  My dog comes to work also and is a business security dog for me while i close at night and has its own spot provided by work in a gated area so she has her own job but a bit less active but shes already proven herself a lot in a lot of situations just like eurosport promised she would which is all that matters.

SOme see it here as hyperactive prey some others here are not looking at rey as hyperactive tho diff people have diff views on it a lot seem to like the high energy bouncing off wals but some people want a diff kind ofprey. I was just talking about the really high energy dogs preston was talking about the gsds that remind me of mals. NEver sit still pace a lot.

A lot of people also may not give 2 craps about a dog that can protect them or their family just not something that interests them.

destiny4u, sounds like you have a very good GSD that does her job well.  It's not that easy to get a good one.  Congratulations.

von sprengkraft, loved your last post!  could not agree more.  ;)
pjp

"The dogs I am talking about do not operate out of fear.  They are confident, dominant dogs that walk the walk so they do not have to talk the talk.  They are calm dogs that rarely bark or growl, but they are at an adversaries throat in the blink of an eye.  If and adversary challenges them, they don't back up, don't back down..whatever you bring they bring more.  In a real fight, if they are not called off they would have to be killed to end it.  They are dogs that can be walked in crowds and dogs that some people (morons) won't believe will bite because they are so calm..until they are tested.  They are dogs that have judgement and can sense evil the way a HRD dog can sense death.  They are dogs that only tolerate everyone other than their owner and likely will not take commands from any one else.  They are dogs that are markedly different with children, or handicapped people.  If you are ever lucky enough to have a dog like that, you know it and you treasure it and spend a lifetime trying to replicate it. " ...Hunger4justice
I have one! Gotta figure out how to replicate her....maybe cloning?
I've sung her praises here before....she's gentle with my grandkids, serious with any threat she perceives....& she knows a threat, not kids on bikes riding down the street, or kids trick or treating, but strange cars in the driveway, or a strange man at the door. A cat can run by us right in front of her, you could throw a ball, whatever...if she's honed into something she's suspicious of, nothing can divert her. When she sees a threat, she will warn them, 3 inches from their face, loud, aggressive bark, all teeth out.....but not bite if they cave. I've seen her. And she came right to me when I called her, she came backwards, watching the threat the whole time. And she stopped in front of me, still watching. She's 7 years old now, no formal training, she WILL bite, not grip, she'll tear you up if you come at me & aren't stopped by the warning. I swear, the older she gets, the more serious she gets. A stranger that we greet & talk to in a friendly fashion, she'll lay down between them & us, & watch them like a hawk, with her tongue out, & a happy face, but yes sir, you bet, if that stranger moved suddenly she would be on her feet so very fast! She's as quick as a snake. Sorry, I love this girl! My west german workingline male would break & chase anything that moves. He's sweet, but he's a mooch. And he'll bite anything that moves fast. Not aggressively though. He does it without thinking. That's what I see is the difference in the 2 dogs, she thinks, he doesn't. She assesses a situation, & reacts if nessecary, he just reacts.
And she's a showlines, so she's beautiful, too! (sorry, I really DO love her!) jackie harris
.

You Guys may remember that i told you that we never use or mention the words Prey or Defense drives in a German Shepherd over here in Belgium.
 In fact nothing regarding what a dog is would be mentioned in that context.
Yesterday at the training club i asked one Guy what Qualities or not Gina had regarding prey drive etc.
His reply was what are you talking about this thing prey drive for i know nothing about such things.
The Dog has got what it takes to be a good Dog, a not so good Dog or a great Dog, That is all we need to know none of this drive or that drive, and Gina is a very good Dog and if handled right will be a great dog that is all you need to know about her.
Now what was this Guys credentials, Very highly respected over here in Belgium and beyond and 4 times Provincial Champion.
So all these things are lost on the Dog Handlers over here, I guess we like to keep things basic and simple in the handling of Dogs,
You Guys like a little more mystery and to make it sound more complex than it really is, and i do not mean it in a funny or unkind way it is the difference in cultures i guess.
Steve1

Thanks for the replies. The particular dog in training is being handled by me and being agitated by a professional trainer (no club crap) with over 3 decades of experience working training police, PPDs, and general pets. He is a dog purchased from Hans at Alpinek9. He did very minor tug work with me as a pup which was stopped as most will see it as a big game if you constantly reinforce it. Was not obedience trained until about 13 to 14 months of age. After only 3 sessions of bite work the first being only civil agitation work with no gear he is biting hard, full, and with bad intentions at 16-17 months of age.  Never had any previous agitation or training. Prey drive is moderate and not over the top. Extremely well balanced temperament. good discrimination. Excellent on/off switch. Makes friends after with no grudge. Nice confirmation with sound hips. For those of you spouting cr@p about Hans you don't know what you are talking about. If you expect every dog sold to  have perfect everything you are very delusional. Every breeder alive has sold an occasional dog that was not perfect. Not to imply anything between Hans and Sable. If you find such a breeder that doesn't let me know. My hired trainer has said nothing but good about my dog. Especially his genetic potential for real PPD work (with muzzle and full suit) and sound temperament. Not the over the top prey driven psycho dog thats made worse by crating or kenneling it to make it look "GOOD" out on the field, by ego driven psychos. Any corresponedence for anyone considering a dog by Hans can E-mail me at 3377porkypig@gmail.com.

your dog is an adult right ? from what i been told it is good to start even pp dogs in prey drive then u bring out the defense later on when they ready

also i wanted to ask is it common for a dog to get more aggressive when a person loses the sleeve and whip?


like just say dog being agitated with sleeve and a whip the decoy takes everything off and comes back with nothing and and does the same but the dogs aggression goes up a notch is this common with east german sheps? I know my dog seems like she takes things more serious when a person is not carrying a sleeve or a whip or a stick i wonder if a lot of gsd would be like this?  It again is just my observavation of a newb i could be wrong but if someone is puffed up in padding she doesnt seem to take them as srs as she does when they are in t shirt and shorts.  Again it dpends how the man in padding probably appoaches her.


Also it seems sticks in hand trigger prey response while a fist doesnt? with a dog this young under 2 its probably not have a clear head enough yet though .



so what i gather sport is just a game u wont know which dogs on the field are going to rip u a new one and which wont until u take off the equip and go attack them or their owner the good ones will teach u a lessson the others wont. The best dogs that people here talk about all had sport titles yet people say their offspring arent sporty and were really serious?  I just gather they got titles to prove their trainability and nerve?