Breeding without titles... open discussion, not an argument - Page 9

CONTINUED"
i could care less about your conditions. i could give a rats ass about you approval
i will give you a condition . let me lay a human track and let your sport dog find me, then i will approve.
 when our dogs go to police or security , they will bark,bite and hold.serch for articles in buildings and cars etc. they will also hunt a man in the woods. the rest is up to the client. A BLOODY HOUR YOU SAY.
go back to the top on page one and read that again. 
 i have said all i want or need to say so good night to all the gsd workin dog breeders.
 

  

I watched a police k9 show the other day and a mal that was featured that could NOT track. I watched two episodes of the same dog failing and the handlers not even attempting or noticing their dog was not even working. This is supposed to be a true k9 on ca streets. Thanks but no thanks..... If it were not for the spotters calling them on the radio the guys would never have been found by the inept and clueless with a sad working dog that never once even dropped his nose to actually use it.

Johan,
I have a lot of respect for the country of Sweden in reference to producing good German Shepherds. For many years your country has been at forefront of hips and temperament in the breed....whatever you are doing people can't deny the results.

No one is denying that good dogs can't be produced from untitled parents, my young dog is one of them who is shaping up well so far, but the problem is untitled breedings opens the gate to allow the breeding of anything from breeders who bearly recognise the difference between the dog's nose and tail with the primary criteria to produce a good working dog is that it requires a male and female.

It's not about if a good dog can be produced from untitled parents of course it can if the breeders knows what they are doing, but the concept of breeding from untitled parents allows too much crap into the gene pools. A good dog can be titled no question, but it's the ones who can't be titled and are being bred in a system that allows the breeding of anything is the problem from my perspective.

There is the other end of the spectrum which needs to be addressed where a title does mean something when people are breeding dogs that don't have enough prey drive to chase a ball and with mandatory titling, dogs like this would not be bred where in the non titling system they are and people are buying pups from them to find out the pups are no good???. It's fine to say get a pup from a breeders who know's their stuff, but the problem is, most breeders claim to be producing the best there is and have all these dogs in untested working roles, security dogs is a primary placement promoted which means nothing when a pet can be used as a security dog in roles again that don't require a testing process.




   

sable59
I told you last time to read my posts correctly or not at all, you are still reading only the way you want them to be. I said AN HOUR to probably mate one of your DOGS NOt to clean the bloody things out that was not mentioned at all by me. However since it takes you all that time in a day to clean out your dog pens then you own a lot of dogs to breed with, INTERESTING.
As for me laying a track for my dog to find you, it is YOU who will lay the TRACK for my dog to find you so you want to prove how good your dogs are then YES i will do that for you with my 13 month old, and bring a couple of yours over for me to test in MY way i will soon see how much Balls they have for you will have never seen the test i will give your dog when it is barking in the blind, nothing to hurt it but it will test the dogs courage and just one blink will show it, but it will test its courage for sure you may be heading home with a cowadly dog who is not as tough and brave as you think it is.
You have a Quick Temper which is not good for you, That does not bother me  here or standing by your side, Note again i was refering to any which think the same as you do BUT if the cap fits then wear it, so do not go and threaten me because this Guy is not a frightened rabbit quite the opposite, if you think you are going to do something then do it not talk about it
As for putting down the United States well you lose your temper as much as you want to,
If you have to have PPDs in the volume you seem to need then something is radically wrong in the system, and NO' once again we do not have any PPDs in a household only perhaps the odd firm and i know only one a Mal.
As for the US being the greatest country in the world of course it would be to you but not to others who do not live there stupid talk
Finally do as you say or shut up for you are as i said covering up for not really working your dogs in anything, that is why you blew your top, However nothing said on a forum will change your mind or mine you will carry on breeding and selling, i will carry on training my dogs in the Sport of ScH, I know after all the huge amount of enjoyable time i have spent training, there will be the reward of a TITLE WELL earned by my dog, and with a little help from me
YOU' on the other hand can breed your dogs without much effort possibly an hours work. then reap the reward of the dollars coming in when the puppies come along
Steve1

Steve1, without a Schutzhund title and passing the korung pups from these dogs are not registerable under SV rule and are mere backyard breedings that can never amount to anything on a global status regardless of how good these pups are, unregisterable worthless animals at world level is the bottom line. If they are happy to produce pups unregisterable at world level, good luck to them, but there is no reason to critisize the one's who aim higher following the global protocol as you have explained, I agree totally with your concepts for what it's worth and the breeders of untitled dogs really have no valid debate in my opinion. 

rexy , let me clear one misunderstanding of yours
in germany , pedigrees are given by the breed clubs , so if you dont follow breedclubrules , you get no pedigrees

in most of the rest of the world , pedigrees are given out by the kennelclubs , so these breedings do get pedigrees on the pups

good and crap can come from both titled and untitled parents , for me knowing how easy it is to get titles , they dont represent any extra value as far as breeding goes , like I and someone else stated earlyer , all german showlines are fully titled and have fully titled pedigrees , so where does that put them on a higher level in workingqualities and health

for steve , the amount of people in europe , having or wanting a personal protection dog is much bigger than you think , remember the police allways comes AFTER the  crime is done

and steve , I think its admirable for you to defend your case so strongly , especially since you never bred a litter of pups or titled a dog yourself , I hope after you titled your dog , and seen some lemons also passing , and you seen some crappy pups from titled parents , as I see them every week in my training and more so in my business , you might think again

Breeding to an untitled dog (I am counting actual certified and operational working dogs as titled for purposes of this topic) should be a seldom and carefully thought out occurance.  Like others have said sometimes circumstances do not allow.  In europe it is much easier to title a dog than in the US simply due to sheer volume of clubs in a given area.  When I lived in Germany I had at least 5 good clubs in an hours drive time to include accounting for traffic and those clubs trained more than one time a week consistently and offered two trials a year.  Here there is one club which has had a sporadic training history that is 1 hour away of freeway driving, I don't remember the last time a trial was offered, the next closest are four hours away, to far to drive for training.  Trialing in Germany was fun, I could find several trials relatively close by on any given weekend and entry fees were very affordable, here you have to hope your schedule is free for the magic weekend and that you can come up with the approximately $500.00 USD that it will cost in expenses (my area counting all travel expenses to get said trial that weekend)  Basically I guess my point is that it is much easier to title a dog if you live in an area with the resources to allow you to obtain said title.  (assuming moderate income ie not wealthy enough to send dog away for title)

duke1965
You think i have not titled a dog then think again and you can look elsewhere to find out what, You again are the sort to ask Questions but fail to answer them when you are asked another cop out and there are a few on here.
You make a case for your untried stock and it seems they sell I guess you are a good talker
And I know the demand is not great over here in Belgium and your country HOLLAND for PPDs and the amount of Police Dogs. I had a very well bred G Gson of Nick who was Hips a1normal. BH ScH1 only 17 months old i had him from 8 weeks old, Circumstances at that time would not let me keep the lad so rather than sell him i offered him to the Police free. They could not take him and said they had no room at the time so much for the police needing Dogs and he was red hot on the Protection side.
if the ScH Sport ceased to exsist, If you know as much as you think you do you could calculate the amount of Dogs in the Sport of just these two countries then breed ONE litter from each Dog. Where would the Pups be placed.
I can tell you most would have a short stay in an Shelter then put to sleep.
However if this was to happen and the Sport closed down, I will tell you what will happen
The Police will go for the lines of the Sport dogs when they need them, with Parents that have worked for generations, your Untitled lot would not be wanted you would therefore  cease to cash in on what you are selling now, Now that would be doing the Breed a lot of good.
THIS is my final post on this thread now said for the third time, i have said what i have to YOU and sable can carry on yapping to your hearts content  you will never convince me that all you do it for is for the money not for the welfare of the breed. However i will concede with you that you do work the Dogs more so than sable does nothing but a good talker there.
Steve1