RAW FED PUPS VS. KIBBLE FED PUPS- PICTURES - Page 9

o.k. I'll be the first one you can guys can TRACK. I'll be in the all RAW group.

so from the pictures shared so far - can anyone tell the raw-fed puppies (or ones from raw-fed mothers) from the kibble-fed?  NO?  Except of course for the undersize corgi pup with the poor coat (fed raw) in the litter of larger healthier-looking kibble-fed littermates.  Interesting, that one.  Any other pictures of healthy puppies?  No proof yet that raw feeding is "better" - I'm sure there is proof coming soon, right?

molly

As soon as they can add chicken poop to their food like you do, they will be sure to inform you. Your so special ! ! ! ! 

Unfortunately you can't quantify benefit from scientific studies because:

a) there are too many variables,
b) an extensive proper study would cost waaay too much $,
c) the pet food industry would never spring for an unbias study because they would lose waaay too much $ in the long run, and
d) people who feed raw and see the results for themselves would never waste money on funding a study when they would rather buy a goat for their dogs to eat.

You don't need science.  Nature doesn't operate according to scientific studies.  You need common sense.

You want a comparison, feed your dogs raw for 2 months and see the results for yourself.  If you're not willing to test and see for yourself, then you are only making excuses for your kibble feeding PREFERENCE.

You want examples, see here:

GSD - kibble started, vet visits every month, first vet visit at supposedly 8 weeks old, vet said decent to slightly under decent condition, irregular heart beat (don't remember the exact wording), poor coat, small size, possibly runt of the litter.  As a puppy, ear infections monthy, switched various 'TOP QUALITY' kibble, hot spots, stool issues, digestive issues, goopy eyes, itching, environmental allergies, grain allergy, chicken allergy, turkey allergy, allergic to everything but the most expensive exotic money draining food.  Switched to raw, allergies disappeared, no hot spots unless I oops scratch him while brushing or leave shampoo residue, eats chicken and turkey with no itching, white teeth, no dental work needed.  Haven't been to the vet in a loooong time.  Only problem that still exists, tips of ears lose hair during the winter from forced hot air.

Rottweiler 1- kibble started, good 'solid' pup, nice size, little bit pudgy, dull coat, goopy eyes, no real "issues" that needed to be addressed by the vet.  Switched to raw, no longer 'solid' and slightly pudgy but has very nice muscle definition, soft super shiny black coat, poops like a dog 1/4 of his size, no more goopy eyes, white teeth, no dental work needed.

Rottweiler 2 - 'quality' kibble fed for 5 years, gorgeous healthy dog, sporadic ear infections, sporadic itching, eyes kept getting red, 'solid' typical rottweiler looking dog.  Switched to raw, no ear infections, no itching, seemingly healthy coat before looks phenomenal now, eyes are clear and white w/no redness, typical 'solid' body is leaned out and super muscular with definition, couch potato is more energetic now.

Pitbull 1 - kibble fed, normal looking dog, dirty gunky ears, broken teeth that were rotting, arthritis from broken bones and calcified joints needing rimadyl at 15 months old, vet said leg with calcified knee would be too painful and would need to be amputated, dog would walk without putting weight on that leg.  Switched to raw, naturally clean ears, teeth almost all white, those that were rotting fell out, dog runs with almost equal weight on gimpy leg, no pain or arthritis unless extreme cold/snow in winter, no rimadyl needed, no amputation, no vet visits.

Pitbull 2 - kibble fed, normal looking dog, dirty gunky ears, broken rotting teeth, arthritis in 1 rear paw (looks like previously broken), giant poops and had trouble housebreaking because of it, spots of missing hair on tail looking like mange.  Switched to raw, same results as Pitbull 1, patches of hair grew back in, able to hold poop in until let outside, no vet visits.  ***Adopted out and switched to kibble...RETURNED to me after 6 months, severe ear infection in both ears, one ear was hot and swollen, patches of hair missing on tail and body, shed like a shepherd, teeth were brown.  Switched back to raw and back to optimal condition.

Small som

Small something-mix lapdog - 'quality' kibble fed for 14 years, monthly ear infections for the majority of his life, last several years with kidney infections, urinary tract infections, cushings disease, hypothyroidism, distended belly, lots of hair loss, several teeth cleanings, stained fur at eyes, warts/growths all over his body, at the vet monthly, vet's last diagnosis was possible pituitary tumor because of strange behavior incident, old worn down no energy dog.  But it's O.K. because we got a good 14 years out of him and that's mighty old for a dog so we should be happy with that.......NOT.  Switched to raw, surprisingly no ear infections, no urinary tract infections, kidney's seem to be ok, belly looks almost normal, no longer looks like a cushings/hypothyroidism patient, hair has thickened, face is no longer stained at eyes, majority (not all) growths have hardened and fallen off, no more incidences of freezing up and robotically barking, peppy and energetic, looks and acts 5 years younger, has been to the vet once for a checkup since starting raw 8 months ago.

Very sorry for taking up so much space.  No litters of puppies here, but thought I would offer some un-scientific comparisons.

My suggestion, if you want to know what the benefits are, or how much better raw feeding is, you just have to try it for yourself and see how your dogs do...because by the time you wait for "scientific studies" to come out about raw feeding, all your dogs will have been dead for many many years.

Actually Jeff I don't feed chicken poop, though the dogs do eat a suicidal chicken once in a while - you are listening to the Drama Queen herself  Jeff - but I guess you are in the right company there come to think about it.  My chickens are in the barn (and elsewhere on my farm), where I store unused dog crates and yep they get poop all over the place in there.  My dog food is stored in the office, and no believe it or not there are no chickens allowed in the office.  Get over it Jeff.  You are still complaining and bitching like an old lady about people and dogs you have never met, and places you have never seen for yourself.

Actually uvw - I did try the "raw diet route".  First I decided that feeding my dogs raw meat/bones would be good for them at least for part of their diet.  So I had an extra freezer/fridge in my basement at the time, and I bought raw meat/bones and supplemented my dogs' kibble diet with it for at least a year.  A few times per week my dogs would get a raw meal instead of kibble.  They would then have loose stool/gas/sometimes the squirts for the next 24 hours, and then constipation/bone-hard stool for another day or so.  Finally someone asked me why the heck I was doing that, and I agreed there was no good reason (no difference in anything other than stool consistancy) and so I stopped.

I then decided that it may be a good idea to put one of my dogs, a dog I was planning on competing for Univeral Seiger that coming year - on a raw diet.  Because I thought maybe his coat would be better since the raw feeders kept making such claims about it, and being a very large dog maybe he would have better stamina and energy level.... so I bought the pre-made raw diet everyone recommended.  I stocked my freezer with it and fed it exclusively to this one dog for 9 months.  He blew his coat after a few weeks and continued to blow  his coat non-stop for the entire 8 months until I finally switched him back to kibble.  He had the worst coat I'd ever seen on  him (and I had raised him from a puppy, he had never had any sort of coat/skin problems) - he was constantly shedding, being a sable dog he looked grey instead of the beautiful red/black sable he was - anyway that was a very bad experience with raw - with a healthy dog who never had any sort of skin, coat or digestive problems before or after switching him back to kibble.  His coat almost immediately stopped shedding and grew in back to normal beautiful shiny black sable very quickly after starting the kibble again.

I'll never feed raw again, there are far too many quality kibble foods available that are balanced and proven and tested and excellent to bother with it.

molly

still waiting for those pictures that are supposed to prove how much prettier and healthier those raw-fed dogs are than kibble-fed dogs!  Or how longer-lived they are, or how many less health problems they have, or how raw diet cures cancer....

Here's my mutt dog who lived to 16.5 years old with never one health problem until he was 16.5, ate regular old grocery store kibble (can't remember what kind, probably something Purina) his entire life.



This is a 17 going on 18 year old Weimeraner - deaf but otherwise healthy - on Old Roy dog food his entire life.



18 year old Suki, a Husky - blind in her later years and on grocery-store bought kibble for her entire life.



molly

Molly, I don't understand why you're so defensive.  If you feed kibble and think it's fine, why are you going onto a pro-raw thread to clarify that your kibble feeding is right, and you're right for feeding that way?  The only way I can explain your defensiveness is that you're trying to convince yourself of your kibble feeding preference, that you feel guilding that your dogs are missing out on something by not feeding them raw, or that you're trying to validate yourself.  If you don't like what you're reading, you can always click on the back button and pick another thread.

But you also sound like you can possibly be habitually lying.  You say in this post that you HAVE in fact tried raw and it didn't work for you.  But previously you wrote that:

"I don't have to try feeding raw to figure that out - there is no way my dogs would be in better coat or condition than they are on kibble (they are in perfect coat and condition).  No reason to fix what isn't broken."

"In fact I would never consider feeding raw unless I have a dog with a specific food allergy, which I don't have so no need to think about it."

So which is it?  Did you or did you not try feeding raw?  And if you did try raw, then obviously something was "broken" with your dog on your kibble feeding regimen that you felt it necessary to try and "fix" it with raw feeding.

Also, just by your above description, although you don't mention which pre-made raw food you were using, I can tell you that you were feeding raw incorrectly (if in fact you did try raw) and that is why you were having issues with your dog.

As for this claim:

"I have seen far more serious health problems caused by diet, in raw-fed dogs and puppies, than I've ever seen in kibble-fed dogs.  So have the vets, just ask them."

I would love to know what dogs you saw with serious health problems, what health problems you saw, who owned these dogs and how they fed them.  And which cets are you talking about?  Can you provide names?  Because there are plenty of vets that advocate raw feeding as well.  And I think it would be safe to say most of the vets that advocate raw feeding DON'T make commission off the food like kibble pushing vets (unless they have their own line of food).

Wait, maybe you're defensive because...um, oh, what was it that you said?

"LOL people who bash those that are better than them are just pitiful wannabes."

I thought this thread was a balance of experience between raw and kibble?  Not pro one or the other.

My personal experience with raw was quite dismal.  I tried it for three weeks to give the 'toxic' kibble a chance to clear my dogs' systems and to give them time to adjust.  I switched on two GSDs and a lab.

I spent a month cleaning up explosive diarrhea and vomitting.  All three of my dogs lost weight and energy. 

My two GSDs are now back on Orijen Regional Red, have good weight, small stools, high energy level, gorgeous coats and are in good muscle.  My lab is on Canidea senior and she's just as energetic and rambunctious as the GSDs.  The only time my dogs see the vet is for annual shots.

Raw seems to work for some and that's great but it doesn't work for everyone.  

My grandfather fed his working bird dogs, Alpo kibble and table scraps every day of their lives.  Those dogs never went to the vet and they worked hard out in the fields during hunting seasons.

If you get the results you want for your dog from raw or from kibble that should be your choice and no one should be getting looked down upon for feeding one way or another.

This is a raw-feeders only thread?  I thought it was a thread about comparing pictures of dogs fed kibble and dogs fed raw.   I have tried raw - didn't work for me.  I've seen plenty of dogs fed raw who were not in good coat and who had health problems caused by poor nutrition.  Many on the same pre-packaged (supposedly balanced) popular brand-name raw diet - others on buy-it-yourself raw diet.  Because the raw diet wasn't carefully balanced?  Probably - that's the danger of it - if you don't know exactly what you are doing, then you can do harm by doing it.  Feeding an imbalanced diet will cause harm.  Especially to puppies.

Vets can tell you how many puppies come in with impactions because they cannot digest raw and/or bone properly.  I've seen it and heard about it.  So even if I did decide to try raw feeding again (which I won't, no reason to - my dogs are PERFECT on kibble) - I would definately not feed it to puppies.

I had a litter come in for tattooing, of unhealthy, unthrifty, puppies with terrible poor coats and hair loss on faces and bellies, one with bowed legs and obvious health problems - Rickets?  That was my guess.....  obvious problems with their diet.  What were they being fed?  Raw diet, of course.  Because the breeder used a homeopathic vet (who I heard later did not have a license to practice vet medicine) who told her what to feed the litter.  The entire litter was so obviously nutritionally deficient.  I recommended the lady switch them all to TOTW at least for a month and see what happened (as well as take them to another vet for evaluation).  I heard later she did not take my advice.  Because raw feeders think they are doing the best for their dogs, right.  It is only a proper diet if it is properly balanced.  Kibble you don't have to worry about that, it's already balanced - so which is better for the dogs?  Kibble, I say.  Feeding a balanced raw diet is fine too - just not for me and mine.

Now where are those pictures?  Should I share more pictures of elderly dogs fed crap kibble that come into my boarding kennel regularly?

molly