The decline of the German Shepherd character - Page 88

I think you know very well whyI blocked you from my mailbox and what could I possibly know about a GSD that you or one of you peers doesn't? 

Thank you Joan, as I have said before, temperament is created when sperm meets egg, not when you train. The first thing I learned when I started in dogs was, "You train what the dog brings you", end of. I will not try to make a dog that does not have the GENETIC temperament do bite work any more then I would try to make one that has it, not do it and will treat both accordingly. Genetics trumps ALL training attempts and efforts.

The pity is, that a lot of working dogs ( in this case sport dogs ) are that full of prey drive, that there is not much left otherwise ...

It´s about genetics first and foremost, no matter out of which line - but without training you´ll never know about genetics.

I do not see Bebo posting anymore on this thread and I am afraid the Admin stopped him from posting temporarily, if that is true then I have a few words to say to

Admin and all friends,

though we had a few hard words interchanged between me and Bebo whom I only knew only a little before, we later exchanged few private pms and I say Bebo is a gentleman and a nice guy, he was nice enough to answer and explain to me few issues on character I had doubt about, I have no hard feelings with him anymore and heartily request the Admin that his contribution to this and similar subjects is valuable and I for one would like to see him posting real soon

Please Admin

 

ibrahim

Bebo is busy, not banned! Bebo is on a long weekend. You're very kind to worry about it, Ibrahim. 

There are people that are way too sensitive that may be should stay away from thread's it's all only an opinion from someone else if post cut that deep is it worth it you wonder why a lot of dog are to soft to do any work look at the people rearing them

joanro - if you think that it's ALL genetics and training makes no difference then I suggest that you turn up for a trial with a dog that has had no training at all.  You know from the beginning that you are going nowhere.  Hired dog thinks "Genetics trumps ALL training attempts and efforts".  It is the training that brings out and enhances what the genetic element brings to the dog.  The dog that you mentioned that came to board with you and you said "The dog couldn't walk on a leash from the car to my kennel without great difficulty" was at sixteen months displaying the genetic side so what was the genetics bringing here?   Genetics is only a part of what happens.

It was v  Stephanitz who commented about exhibitions and what they brought to the breed by way of assessment of changes to the construction of the dog that may be needed to maintain a good working dog .  That was said before the founding of the SV and they followed the thoughts of v Stephanitz.

What you and other people in the working side do not understand is that the conformation of the dog is pertinent to any dog whether it be for show, work,  pet or otherwise.  The breed standard has stood the breed in good stead.  It is not trying to stop you or anyone else in maintaining a good working dog. 

Mackenzie

    

It's not the message, Yogi et al, and it's not about being overly sensitive, it's about the way it's presented. Instead of saying this is the way it is because I say so, why can't you say, I'd rather see this in a GSD becasue......................I think a GSD should behave this way or that way because.......... and so on.

Personally I don't care anymore. I have no skin in this game.  I have my last GSD and will be moving on to another breed soon. However, there are novices who read here and who could possibly benefit from hearing something more positive than - all SLs stink because I say they do. 

Mac, you seem to have missed the whole point of the example I presented of the untrained dog. My point was that even without any constructive foundation, at sixteen plus months old, the dog still had the genetics to become a valuable working dog with a real job...how many showline dogs, give them the benefit of early foundation work, have the ability to become a true working dog doing the work my female ended up in. Now, how many do you guess could succeed with zero foundation training ? I never said a dog doesn't need to be trained, but it takes genetics to succeed at becomeing a PSD. Especially starting from scratch with a dog over one year old and no training, just running loose on invisible fence. You must realize this deep inside, as you have been around dogs for many years and unless a person is in complete denial the evidence is plain to see. PS. I didn't say 'training makes no difference'. If the dog had been trained in minimum basics, the kids would not have had their dog taken away from them...the parents failed the dog and their children. BUT, the dog had the GENETICS to become, WITH training, a very useful dog serving the community in LE. How many dogs without theappropriate genetics do you know would have been able to make the transition from kids' playmate to working dog without any foundational training?

Joan, Mac did not fail to comprehend what you said, he chose to ignore it or counter it because your statement alluded to the fact that show lines cannot work today and he, being more of a show line person, wanted to offer his rebuttal.

Mac, once more, for the 187 time, you CANNOT train something that the dog does not bring you genetically, so, in regards to training a dog, which of course is very important, you need to have a genetically sound dog in order to start your training.