The decline of the German Shepherd character - Page 85

Thats impressive Blitz now show us the dog. Surely such an accomplished animal that you think so highly of and bred will be clearly impressive in his work?

Fyi the only issues here are people including you that lack the ability to be honest with yourselves and others about what a dog is and is not.

I have seen and owned plenty of WL that were average and IMO had nothing to offer the gene pool beyond more mediocrity and or outright weakness. Sadly the majority of those were better then most of the top rated show dogs that are touted far and wide...like Mentos ;).

So no, there are no show people on here calling anyone on anything. It should be easy I can find so many vids of good WLs that show the drive and strength necessary for real work or sport. How come the same is not true for SLs?
You already know the answer so why perpetuate your myths?

Normally its easier to just let it go but this time I think we need to get to the bottom of this strange case of denial many of the SL breeders have about what their dogs are. That is a huge piece to this puzzle we are discussing ;-).

I repeat show us the dogs, I have already posted a couple of little known dogs that have been contributing to the gene pool and examples of them working. It was very easy. All we got in return was a vid of Mentos...lol. Mack was impressed with his heeling....still no vids of dogs she has been using or produced.

Either cut the crap or show us these great workers you all have hidden on your couches. :)

Ps: Mack by character its clear you mean what pet people often refer to as temperment. Basically is the dog easy to live with, biddable, doesnt wreck the house, try to eat strangers etc.
What you dont realize is that for people that work their dogs character means so much more. A nice friendly pet does not necessarily have good character. A hard charging, high drive, dominant dog like Gucci Esblokhof is most certainly more pet then most out in the world or on here can handle, but he has good character. Even better his kids can work too.

compare this vid of a dog i like compared to mentos, are they even the same frikkin breed.

sight impaired and menatlly challenged  people will see the difference in character even if they hhaave never seen a dog before.

if pointing this out hurts people's feelings should those of us that love the breed give a flying F;

in fairness this dog has had excellent training with experts and access to decoys that most can only dream of.

not a young dog either, not sure what all the BS in the first scene was suppossed to prove...anyone???

does it's shape or colour impede it's work??;

 

again, what i like is, that altho he is bouncy in the blind which some people hate, his bark actually sounds like a serious dog and not all whiney/yappy sound, that  whiny bark some good dogs got  is a deal breaker for me no matter how good everything else is.

 

this is one of those dogs that  makes my little  heart go pitter patter.

 

 

^ i think he meant pioneer in his own country which i don't think is big on dogs??

 

ibrahim is much loved here, i think is the point.

 

i dunno.

^Want to know why? Ibrahim is very down to earth, not arrogant, not condescending, no ego, very civil and a genuine great guy. I don't think many would agree with most of those making fun of him and those same members should look inside themselves and figure out how to be a little bit more like Ibrahim.

 

I respect Ibrahim as much or more than 90% of all members who participate. Like I said earlier in this thread it isn't the dogs losing character it is the people. That is a fact. Proven over and over anywhere you go on the net.

Now gentleman / cough cough get a life and get off Ibrahims ass.

Well, well, well Haz you have managed once again to have a preconceived idea of what I think of a dog. I really want to help you here because I have never made a comment regarding the heel work of the dog that you mention, or, any other dog. You are just full of meaningless preconceived ideas.

You posted a video about Jaegers v d Sportwaffen and on page 45 I responded to the video. I suggest that you go back and read what I said about the dog and in particular the last paragraph where I said “ Overall, from what I could see on the video, I was impressed by his type and willingness to work and one that I would consider if I had a female suitable for him. Good dog.” Perhaps that statement should tell you more about my ideas. I did also point out in the my post that in part of the video the sleeve was held out for him.

The last paragraph of your last post is once again a preconceived idea of my idea of character (to help you please read the paragraph before this one).

Some of the videos are interesting but what do they mean? What the video is showing that a dog working at one particular moment in time and, one moment only. The dog could have 99 other videos showing him working with many of them showing just an average dog or worse.

Perhaps one day you will get up in the morning smell the coffee.

Mackenzie

Thank you Markobytes, Admin, Kitkat and Blitzen. I appreciate your words and sincere thoughts

 

Bebo,

 

I wasn't going to respond to your anger but you chose to enter Gustav's name and accused me of being impolite to him, maybe even insulting, I will not let you get away with that, It wasn't intelligent nor wise of you to do that, even though your previous posts give the impression you're old and mature, what you did is very childish, same goes for your last post.

You are totally mistaken and I never meant to be rude to anyone, I respect Gustav and think high of him, do I agree with him on each and every thing he says?, NO, and I do not feel guilty about that at all, does saying so belittle him or what he has offerred to the breed?, NO, not at all.

I never felt ashamed of saying openly here on this forum that I learned from him, which is a fact, just same I learned from Blitzen, Marko, Jenni.................., I learned something from almost every one who posts here, does that make me less? I don't think so

I never claimed I know better than any one else or have the whole truth in my pocket. You don't know me well enough to judge me and I as a dog owner am entitled to say my opinion same like anyone else. It is true I am not a professional breeder or trainer but that does not make my opinion less credible than yours or anyone else's. If I cross the TOS of the site, only then you can ask me to shut up.

If I am not a trainer that does not mean I don't train and interact with my dogs or work them, I own both show and work, some are good on the scale of standard and some are not, no one type is better than the other as a whole, some are better in a certain character and some are not, that is a fact I live with day and night, whatever you say or claim will not convince me the work type is fault free or it meets the standard perfectly. Whatever you say will not make my coward work type GSD a brave one, do I hate him for that? Not at all. I love him as much I love my best GSD. But can I breed him? No, is he good? No, and I have no reason to hide his shortcomings like some, many, owners do and claim the contrary.

If you don't follow the standard or think SV is doing more harm than good, that is your own opinion and you can't force it on others, but remember this, who cheats? those who breed/show their dogs. Who doesn't follow regulations? it is those who breed/ show their dogs. Who makes traffic violations? we do, it isn't totally the mistake of SV or goverment.

Do you think your flush of anger and sour words will freak me? They will not, and don't accuse me of insulting anyone, if any one here feels I was impolite and says so I will humbly apologize to him or her. 

After reading all these post, as an oldtimer i stil beleive it is all about the individual. That once in a livetime dog that just can't be replicated not even cloned. This is what legends are all about.

I do believe there are still good dogs out there, its a matter of going out and find them.

Regardless of today's science on genetics.

Life is still a like box of choclates, Forrest Gump.

You're damned right that dog and her legacy is impressive, Haz. Her owner worked with her every day from the time she was imported to the US at a year old. Every single title was HOT and she earned the 3rd leg for her UD when she was 9 1/2. She died suddenly just 2 weeks after earining a rally leg. She was a wonderful dog, my heart dog, and was taken suddenly at only 10 years 4 months. My dogs are not tools, they are  a part of me like the air I breathe; when one dies, a part of me dies too. If you think for one second I would ever put a video of her on this board for a critique you are dillusional. That's not  because I am ashamed of her. It's because I don't feel the need to prove anything to you or anyone else. Her titles speak for her accomplishments. Maybe some don't think titles are important. I happen to believe they are the ONLY way to offer solid proof that a dog is capable. Anyone can talk the talk; show me the money.

I will try to make this short and go back to lurking. I consider Ibrahim a friend and was not at all insulted by his posts, everyone is entitled to voice their opinion and to be respected for posting. I have respect for most of the posts from Bebo and Haz, though they are much more blunt than I am, they often resonate with the condition of the breed as I have seen it evolve. 

I have often said that I don't believe in Lines,( as in WL vs SL) and feel that their evolution has led to a decline in the breed as a " utility" dog. As many of you know, I have been blessed to have been in this breed for many many years and owned and worked with thousands of dogs over the years. ( I have even shown in American and SV shows for brief periods of time). During this period of time I have lived by this quote from the originator," the beauty of the dog is in its utility"....this has been my mantra since 1970 when I started this journey. I honestly think that " Lines" based on show and sport have done irreparable damage to the utility of the breed, and thus enhanced the decline of character. When you use exceptions to make a point, your point is lost!!! Would you breed to dogs that consistently throws weak hips, albeit occasionally they through an OFA excellent dog to showcase or make your point. I get the passion and the " likes" people have for the breed and their dogs individually. But I seperate people,( in my mind), into breeders and owners. I hold breeders to a much higher standard than owners, in protecting and continuing the breed. Just like I differentiate an excellent handler and trainer in the breed.( An excellent handler has demonstrated the ability to take that which they own and know very well and train them to high level, while a trainer has to be capable of assessing and training the many different variants of the breed). 

Over the years, who did I emulate? A breeder named Alfred Hahn, who forgot more about this breed than probably anyone on this board.....he bred GS that were successful in show, he bred GS that were sought out by the most discriminating working venues. He bred Black and Tans/ and he bred Sables, and the different derivatives that come from these two. Was he perfect, I'm sure he wasn't as nobody is, but he got it, and he got it right, and his body of work,( which ultimately must be the barometer for all breeders) is beyond dispute. If he were living today, I wonder if he would think the character of the breed is in decline.......I don't know, but whatever he thought, I would give it high credence.