The decline of the German Shepherd character - Page 81

I disagree Ibrahim,YOU certainly qualify...and in my opinion, are so deserving of a good German Shepherd.

I'm working on it for you.

Learned something today..LOL.  So..you need to breed crapper A to crapper B in order to understand temperment and character???  The V50 dog would survive in the wild??  Bitework is not the best way to determine character??  SL are closer to the standard???

Sorry to burst the bubbles but the only way to judge character is to WORK..I will repeat it again WORK your dogs.  Work and be involved in the training of numerous dogs.  Do some helper work and train / test your dogs (not just pet obedience).  Maybe then you will start to get a clue.

A person that has done that would not post vids of Mentos and ask if he was any good ...LOL.

Any idiot can breed their pets together and raise a litter, its what that litter does that is important.

Its real simple if you dont work your dogs you know nothing about character.  Be happy with your pets, if you show them and that makes you happy go nuts, but dont delude yourself that you know anything about good character or what it takes to produce working dogs.

 

Ibrahim..really?

That dog is from generations of dogs that work.

That means generations of dogs that:

-Jump high barriers

-Rocket down the field or street at a sprint and hit the decoy / real bad guy, absorb enourmous impact to neck and spine regularly, have their jaws locked firmly on the helper or criminal fought and defeated him

-Dogs that operate in all weather conditions moving fast, changing direction quickly in the pursuit of prey or a ball

-Dogs that have been exposed to STRONG training methods and still maintained a good work ethic and got it done

-Dogs that search for humans and drugs over all surfaces and in all environments

-Dogs that have worked and functioned effectively for their entire lives

-Dogs that were culled for generations if they could not work or withstand pressure well

 

Based on that why an earth would anyone worry about angles or reach?  Why would they worry about gait or pigment?  All they need to know about what the pup is likely capable of is in the parents and their ancestors.  They all worked, their is a good chance he will too :-).

 

Now lets compare that to generations of dogs that ran around a ring and were selected for pigment, gait, reach, angles, politics, and a whole bunch of other characteristics that are completely arbitrary and serve no purpose beyond meeting some mythological ideal in structure that has no real world application.  Dogs that for generations have only been bred with the most cursory (if even that) nod to workability.  Dogs were the helper is told to be easy during the Koer Klasse.  Do not be frontal, give an easy prey bite, make sure the sleeve is well presented and do not fight the dog.

 

Of those two were do you think the best structure for working and real life will be?  Note, I wont even include temperment its drop dead obvious.

 

 

 

 

 Speaking of decline of the breed I will say that one part of it is that many breeders  are too proud  and too kennel blind and will not give credit and will not learn from others why their dogs produce well and eventually the quality is lost. Such people too insecure then need to go and stab the ones who helped them    to be who  they are by providing them with such dogs instead of to be eternally greatfull to them.  I will say as a response  to that, that many breders have  great dogs but nowhere it is just these breeder's   doing.  ALL  of  them are  standing on shoulders of giants and legends and saying me me me!!!! I , I, I!!! pride before fall. Demise of breed is caused by that. 

Also  to joan I'll say this,   nowhere have I said that Furo  was  bred by Jiri,...but I will say this, if it would not be for that Jiri recognized Furo as special dog  and obtained him and valued him where non other did and nobody would even look at him. If he had 1litter ot 2 litters of local breeding ,  before Jiri discovered and made him into legend,  then it is too much and now Furo is  in thousands of pedigrees.  Even Joan's dog's pedigrees and she thinks LOL  that she isdoing something special by putting  2 great dogs together without credit or demonstrably on this thread, understanding of what made them great.   And that is true about  many Jiri's dogs. He travels and digs them out of  old barns and back yards and local dog shows which he judges.  I have been with him many times. And on shows he recognizes great dogs and buy them for his own cash fro the sake of the breed and make them famous. Most dogs you see as our studs would be nothing if Jiri would not found them. And breeders like Joan and me and others  would not be able to to benefit from them.  Argument about who bred Furo is silly straw man. Also do not forget that  Furo would not exist without Jiri as far as pedigree  goes too. And you would not get that pup from Furo and Puci if Jiri would not breed them.    And Puci JIPO ME was bred by  JIPO ME - JINOPO bred by Jiri Pokorny which is only matter of paperwork. Pokorny is a trainer and would not breed much without Jiri's consultation and approval. They are co-owners of  the same business where the breeding is Jiri's domain and  Pokorny is mainly a decoy and trainer and kenenl help.  But you are too proud  to understand that. And all the dogs z Pohranicni straze and SNB and Policia from 1981 and up in Puci';s and Furo's peds you are so proud of as your creation   are in existence only because of Jiri.  And if Joan  thinks that she  created anything, then I am here to say that she  have done is to put 2 dogs together,  which we sold to her  or are from our(JINOPO= Z Jirkova dvora+ Jipo me +AlpineK9. )  breeding or based on our breeding.  As far as what I breed ?Joan you  have no clue what I breed because I do not even advertise my litters. Thus there is nowhere for you to find what I do . I do not care for others to know what I do My dogs work in all walks of life from pets toS&R and security and police and military but  I breed to my own satisfaction and do not need to  gloat  bout "My" this and "My" that like you pathetically do. AND!! I am  always humble enough  and give credit to Jiri every step of the way and consult with him and lern from him and indeed sometimes he lerns from me too. We talk every day about our breedings.  Without understanding what people like Jiri( and not just Jiri)  does the breed will decline . If it would not be for him you and  I and hundreds of other breeders all over the world would have nothing. Because their breeding is based on dogs created by jiri Novotny. The big difference  between me and Joan   is that I admit and  I am eternally grateful to Jiri for what he done for the breed and I want to learn how he and other breeders have done it and I learn and use it and teach it so others can leran so the breed may continue to strive based on those techniques and knowledge. Without recognition and understanding of the work of breeders on whose shoulders we stand the breed will go to crap.  But all some  do is  just stab such pepole like Jiri  in the back every step of the way.  I am sick of your boasting Joan of what you have done without giving crediit where credit is due. You are too proud to see past your kennel. 

People like you are demise of the breed too.They are  too proud to learn too proud to give credit. And consider their luck to be art to breed  and do not understand where their dogs came from and why are they great.. 

 Prager Hans

Haz - I absolutely agree with you that character development will be enhanced by work. In fact if you care to read my posts carefully you will see that I do all of the things that you have mentioned with the exception of drug detection. All of my dogs have been worked and I have done helper work for others.

Your words " A person that has done that would not post vids of Mentos and ask if he was any good ...LOL" and. once again if you read what I actually said on page 77 which was "What do posters think about this show line male doing his turn at the 2014 Sieger Show. Look him up on Youtube up his name is Mentos v Osterberger Land. Sorry I do not have the link" and, if your reading powers have gone beyond Grade 1 level you will note that I did not ask if the dog was any good. LOL in your post must have been in anticipation of being wrong again.

Mackenzie

"I absolutely agree with you that character development will be enhanced by work."

 

i am now convinced, this is not an even playing field.

 

Mack sorry if i have said anything to offend you, i thought you were....never mind.

 

please ban me from this nut-house.

vk - I am not at all offended by your remarks, in fact I do not know why you post on here.  As for you being banned that is entirely up to Admin and nothing to do with me.  Like everyone else you are entitled to your opinion, even when it's wrong.  Why don't you exercise a bit of self control and just leave this thread all together?  That is better than getting banned.

Mackenzie

You may be "saying" it but I dont get the impression you really understand it from several comments you have made about SLs, bitework and aggression as it applies to character evaluation.  Nor do I get the impression that you have done actual helper work or have properly worked your dogs sufficient to evaluate what they are.  Taking some bites on a sleeve and having your dogs out at a club once in a blue moon to bark at a helper and chase a ball does not provide you with any of those things...

 

Word games are fun..but we both know you thought Mentos was impressive ;-).

 

 

I'm adding, hans, if I had known that ten years after buying puppies from jinopo, that every time I mention my dogs on this forum that I am being verbally abused by you, I would never have bought from jinopo. I would have gone to someone else and would have made success with pups from some other kennel. I imported a pup from Holland a couple months ago that so far is equal to my own seven month old three generations removed from jinopo pup. You're your own worst enemy. Hans, maybe you should go live wih jiri. You cram jiri down everyone's throat every chance you create, so none needs to sing his praise, you do it enough for the whole globe. I bought four puppies from jinopo which I raised and trained. I have done well in breeding them. I don't owe you credit for anything I've accomplished, you happened to be the contact I was directed to in order purchase from jinopo, and I wasn't too keen on that being as I'd never heard of you and you got your cut out of the sales....paid in full. As for the two jiri's, l bought three puppies which Pokorny bred, and one puppy which Novotny bred, the two adult dogs I bought from you that were not bred by you, turned out to be expensive pets. You do appear to be suffering from sour grapes and can't answer any questions. As for your personal attacks directed at me, you threw the same insults at Duke three years ago...seems anyone who does anything positive from dogs out of Czech republic, you want credit....at least I'm in good company, so l must be doing something right. The breed is better for my small contribution, not worse, and that's all that anyone who ever breeds even a few dogs such as myself can do. I have had the goal to produce at least as good as what I've started with, and with three sch titles dogs come me, one highly title akc obedience dog, personal protection dogs for two professionals who take their dogs to work with in fl and sc, a Leo 's wife who has a littermate sister to apprehension dog as PPD ,just to name a few is hardly an example of destroying the breed as you claimed I'm doing. I don't need to keep you and jiri on high every day to put the hard work into what I've accomplished. At least I didn't change the kennel name on the registration papers like you did, every one can see Pokorny is the breeder of three of my dogs and Novotny the breeder of one of them. Give it a rest Hans, being so bitter at every one who has managed to accomplish anything with jinopo dogs isn't becoming for a famous breeder like you.

did this happen to anyone else? When the 100th page came up, my computor screen exploded with confeitti and fire works shot out of my fire wall! it was beautifull! thanks everyone for the moment

The first thing we do, let's kill all the showlines.