The decline of the German Shepherd character - Page 8

JC, I love this statement - Show me a pedigree, I'll tell you what the dog comes from. Show me the dog, I'll tell you what he appears to be. Show me what he produces, I'll tell you what he really is. 
 

Jc.carrol - I am already aware of the information set out in your opening paragraph.  As for the w/line breeders selling puppies from well known bloodlines it is exactly the same situation in the show people.  There are many dogs, male and female, over the last forty years who gained VA status but left nothing.

I also applaud anyone who makes a serious effort to train their dogs.  It is bloody hard work with many ups and  downs even for the best trainers.  When I have had a dog in training I train every day in sunshine, rain, storm, snow. A good working dog has to be able to work in all conditions.  Training requires a lot of time and an abundance of patience and repetition.

In the seventies I handled my very good friends dog.  I handled her at her very first show and won puppy class, best puppy and reserve best in show.  The female was then handled by many handlers as her show career continued.  The reason for the change of handler was because I could not get to too many shows. A year later I was asked to handle the dog once again and although she performed well for me it transpired that she had become  a dog whose character had become completely shot in the worst way.  Although I was not very happy about it I handled her at her next show.  She performed perfectly and we won the Junior class.  I continued to handle her and her performances were absolutely perfect in the ring and I made her up to a UK Champion.  I knew that her character was so bad that nobody could get near her.  Because of her character and the unworthy success I took no further part in the breed for the next two years. I just enjoyed the pleasure of my own dog.

Mackenzie

It's a little long but Dr. Raiser Has some very valid points

A friend imported a female and a male from Germany. Those 2 dogs earned Sch 3's and many AKC OB titles always HOT. Their  pedigrees contained some of the most respected GSD's in Germany. It took months of intense research to find those dogs; her first 2 imports intended for breeding and titling.

To date those dogs have produced 3 litters and 4 generations of titled dogs  including 3 IPO3's, 3 IPO2's, 4 IPO1's, 11 CD's, 9 CDX's, 4 UD's, 1 UDX. 1 UDX1, 1 UDX2, 7 rally titles, 29 agility titles, 3 AKC CH, 1 AKC Grand CH, 1 Best Puppy in a GSDCA specialty, 1 UKC CH, 7 BH's, 8 AD's, 10 CGC's, 1 TD, 1 VCD1, 1 VCD2, 1 OM1, 4 KKL1. 5 TC's 1 Hearing Service Dog, 2 GSDCA Dual Award winners, 2 GSDCA Dual Award Excellent winners and 4 have earned the GSDC PAM award for earning advanced OB titles. Many are V rated. 

Titles don't tell the whole story but IMO they tell a lot about the breeder's dedication and the character of the parents and the progeny.  

As a sidebar, the dam mentioned above was a working dog her entire life. At 4 years of age she received a standing ovation at the Sieger for her bitework and placed V 86, a very respectable placement for an American owned dog that had never been seen in Germany. She finished her UD at 9 1/2 years and her CGC and TC at 10. She died suddenly after just earning 2 rally legs 2 weeks earlier. No one knew she was sick. The male was equally as accomplished and was believed to have been the most titled GSD in the US at one time. He lived for 14 years.

IMO I don't think character has declined dramatically in the breed over the years; one just needs to know where to look for it and what to do with it when it is found. 


 

i was told a few post back its not SLine v WLine but obviously is and as it goes it appears a lot of members think SLine is  the weekness when people countinue to title their dog in a scripted manner and have never been put in real situations where they can not predict the next move because its as real as it get without someone getting hurt breeding dogs that are week nerve shy we will allways have dogs that decline in character A BIT ABOUT MY DOGS i have a male gsd tracelyn  lines who never titled but i have trained in guarding and protection work good hips clear head u can bring anywhere but when u come to see him u know your noot going to pass him a any pup off him has never showen any shy week nerve and i only breed with my own femals people look for supperstar dog i just have real dogs for real people and have never had any come backs titles are inportaint but not the b all the dog s that stand before u are whe picking a pup should tell u as close as posible to what your going to get as most people will have never see the rest of pedigree in person not saying pedigree is not important  just my opinion

young male year pluse sorry about video

Let me add some gas to the fire....

I do not consider a "working" dog to be one that is shown to receive titles.  To me a working dog is one that truly works -- police, military, search/rescue, service, ranch/farm, etc.  Real world situations are quite different than those structured for titles.

Don't get me wrong, there is a need for the title competitions.  However, are some of the most breedworthy dogs overlooked because they do not have all the fancy letters before or after their names? They are probably too busy with their real work to compete for a title.

There is no problem with the GSD as a breed or the character of the GSD for the MANY jobs and ways that the breed can perform.  The real problems facing the GSD as a breed is the character of the breeders, owners, and trainers.  The so called working line breeders have done as much or more to destroy the GSD as a breed as have the so called show line dogs or breeders.  I have had both and two show line with working line mated dogs and the show line with working line mated dogs were excellent and produced excellent offspring.  It's all a bunch of smoke and mirrors.  I don't need to see a dog's pedigree or it's scorebook to know if the dog is an excellent GSD.  The real problems in the GSD world begins with snobbery among owners and egotistical clubs and organizations on the part of the GSD owners who wish to think of themselves and their dogs as elite.  The GSD is not a single use breed and biting a jute sleeve or a bite suit does not define the worthiness of the breed or determine which dogs are suitable for breeding.  Neither is the GSD as a breed limited to a rubber stamp color and color pattern ( reddish brown with a black saddle ).which is often achieved in photos with Photoshop.  These are flaws in human character not the character of the dogs.

ARgh...Yogidog, is it possible for you to use punctuation in your posts? They are very hard to read without it.

I used to teach English, and they make me just want to get out my red pencil....

Even if you are posting from your phone, it is usually still possible to use punctuation.

Thank you....

[removes twitching fingers from keyboard, and goes in search of a drink.... ]

Edited to add: Yes, I see your point. We breed DOGS not pedigrees. I have had a number of rescue dogs with totally unknown pedigrees. Some had wonderful sound temperaments, typical of their breed. Others were not so great. The gal in my sig may not have had the greatest structure, but no one dared lay a finger on our car, or step on our property when she was on duty! 

I think one of the reasons we have lost the original character of the GSD is because too many people are breeding for a single purpose, and focusing too much on selected aspects of the GSD character. Showline people often breed for looks rather than temperament, and working line people are breeding for excessive drive, and wind up with dogs that are poor household companions because they always have to be doing something. Neither dog represents the true GSD character.

Joanro said:

"Marcobytes, learned behavior is passed on in the DNA. It is no longer theory, but fact."

I skipped to the front after I saw this statement so maybe it has been discussed a bit already. Joan please cite some sources for this statement. It seems as though some folks are letting epigenetics hypotheses slide down the slope to Lamarkism.

Mike