which country has not ruined the german shepherd? - Page 8

Agree, vk4,  there has been quite a bit of use of Mannus in UK Police AND OTHER breeding programmes, 

 in working strains,  so - along with the introduction of some of the same well-known dogs from Eastern

Europe that also form part of the US pedigrees -  it isn't as though there are such huge differences

in the WL bloodlines of the two countries either side of the Pond.

 

Haz,  I don't entirely disagree with your 'take' on the question of importing from the UK to America -

BUT  I was answering the OP's question, not doing a sales promotion !  Other posters introduced

the idea of different  countries to import from, I merely pointed out that we - including our Services -

are happy with our GSDs and not so much part of the fashionable wave to replace the breed, throwing

it away as no longer fit for purpose.

 

But I disagree with much of what you say: a)  in describing our Police dogs;  OK they may not all be

perfect, in the training etc, but you are generalising.  When you say "watch them", can  you confirm

you have done that yourself, on more than the odd video on the Net ?   In practise, although ours is

less of a gun-orientated culture, the actual work when GSDs are sent in to search buildings  (domestic

houses OR business premises) and the degree of control (or not) of the dog, looks awfully similar in

BOTH countries !    Always different on the Training Field  or in Competition    .

b)  there has been an upsurge in interest in working even the SL dogs, among the general GSD-owning

community;  far more is being done now on that side than ever before,  the message finally got through

(funny, this went hand-in-hand with the demise of the Alsatian !) that the GSD is a working breed, and that

should be illustrated when dogs are Shown.   And bred.   I for one have great respect for what is being

done, and renewed hope for a better future for our breed in the UK than I had for some considerable time.

PS  One other thing about the majority of UK breeders, and the Police dog sections:

they are  a good deal more interested, these days, in the health of their stock than are

many US breeders (of WL or SL/pets), demonstrated as seen through PDB feedback.

HM, basing your opinion of the health of the entire population of gsd in the USA on feedback through pdb? Even if it was remotely representative of the population, you only see people complaining about a health problem, not the numbers of healthy dogs . I personally take objection to your comment as being inacuate....that is not a subjective topic for which to have an opinion, it is very subjective topic which can have stats and numbers based on population.
Seems to me I remember two years ago, Crufts implementing a policy of vet checking gsd and other breeds they consider endangered due to genetic health problems. But what about the gsd that are bred that don't get to Crufts....if the health problems are so prvelent in the breed there that the kc deems the gsd endangered?

The Netherlands and Holland

HM, I disagree with your comments about health. I think it's more like the health is such a disaster in many lines in the UK that something had to be done, and fast! Not to start a war, but it's like the Crufts and Westminster crowd touting all their health tests on breeding dogs and trying to make Euro or US working line breeders look irresponsible for not testing for certain things, but let's face it; they're testing for all this crap because they have ongoing problems with it on a larger scale! There are Am. show breeders testing for things the Germans have never heard of...and this is a German Shepherd. So...I don't think your argument in this case is a valid one as to the case you're trying to make for the UK GSD. If we're just going by PDB feedback, looks like folks in the UK have a heck of a time trying to get a healthy dog w/good working temperament. Just perception, perhaps...

I know a fair number of GSD breeders, mostly showlines, and I can't think of one who has used for breeding a dog that wasn't healthy with a minimum of normal hips and elbows. 

Yeah, I agree with Blitzen.....I just don't see where the UK has any advantage whatsoever in the health department. One also needs to remember that most of the complaints on here about health are from inexperienced buyers who got taken advantage of by someone unscrupulous which happens in EVERY country- pet breeders, BYB breeders...they're everywhere. The USA is just a lot bigger than most of these places put together. 

Ooooh, !  Simmer down girls.   I'm sorry if I did not make it clear that I was not writing

about all of you, and the circles in which you move;  but rather, the many posters who

ask on here about breeding, presenting such daft assumptions and lack of knowledge

that we all have to get on their case.  And the websites referenced where it becomes

clear that they breed dogs without worrying about hips &c.

I did say  "many" US breeders, not ALL of them !   I would have thought you would all

realise by this time that I would not, myself, condemn all of any nation's dogs or dog

people, I leave that sort of swiping to other posters  (including the OP, apparently).

Of course you could all find similar examples of  UK breeders at that end of the scale,

who think £$£$£$ more important than the dogs.  Not just in our breed, either.

 

Joan,  Jenni :   responsible GSD fanciers in the UK have been supporting testing stock,

and financing research into hips, DM, epilepsy  etc  for decades ;  our Kennel Club's

"Johnny come lately" measures over the past  half dozen years have just been

"dressing on top" of real concern about health issues.

No, I got that HM. Sorry if you misunderstood what I was saying. I wasn't personally offended whatsoever- just pointing out the size of the US and state of the breed as a whole. 

I was pointing out the falacy of using complaints on pdb as a reference point. And, the kc has had to address the blatent health issues in the gsd going through their shows.