GSDs back in the days - question - Page 8

 Quote: Again I salute Robin, she deserves respect and she is cool.

How did your discussion of colors work out ? That cracked me up. I just thought I would throw that in there, as anyone that is concerned with the color of a dog cannot be taken seriously.

I like good discussions especially when good knowledge and experience is revealed generously, I enjoyed and benefited from many of your posts before where there was less arguing, I value your knowledge a lot, I feel no shame in saluting Robin for her dogs which work the streets, in my humble opinion she deserves not only my respect but every one's respect, she managed to breed beautiful yet GSDs that work in real life, not sport only. Forgive me if I offended you but I did not mean to.

with respect
Ibrahim

This shit gets me fired up. Don't ever take it personally, it is just how I talk, and if I was actually with you, you would see it is not all carried away and hatred filled or anything. I tend to be serious, and then goof on things. I never want to see a dog fail, so part of me is happy, and part of me is what the fuck were they thinking ? Ya know ? The guy did good work with those dogs to get them even looked at. Way below what I would even think about using. It is hard, because so many on these boards think that you hate them, when you are just pointing out that they know fuck all. 

By the way, I never get offended. Carried away MAYBE, but offended ? Nope. 

I am not an expert like you, what I know and sure of is I was very happy seeing show GSD doing real work and I wish more show breeders pay more attention to working ability as Robin did.

Ibrahim

 Quote: What these dogs are learning in this video is called a systematic search. The dog must smell everywhere the handler directs them, pointing out many small things to smell along the way and the dog may not move forward until he has smelled where the handler has directed. It is obvious in both videos that both dogs show odor recognition very earl in the search but considering that this is an exercise in obedience as well the dogs are taught to continue searching everything until they come upon the exact source of odor.

Not for nothing, but I do not want to work that hard ever. It covers up dogs with little hunt drive. I want to train a dog to find the odors I want him to find, and then let him do all the work.

It looks cool in the early training stages, but later on, a year or two, many dogs just follow the hand, and stop really searching. Too many green handlers, or I should say handlers, give clues to the dog, and the dog just looks for them. 

Quote: Jeff,
You have confused my intent of communication with you, with the need of approval from you.
Let me correct that misconception....your "approval" holds no value for me.
I am also completely assured that the Police K9 handlers, training facility, instructors & breeders of the numerous certified working K9s...are also not in any personal conflict in regards to your "approval" or expertise.

I have chosen to humour myself with open Internet communication with you......that is all.
After over 30 yrs of owning, training & handling dogs for the Police depts of Illinois....I'm sure that the professionals at this facility will learn from your "valuable insight"...

Ah yes, the old pedestal arguement.  LOL

If you have been training and selling dogs to police depts for 30 years, I probably have ran some of your dogs then. It was probably one of your dogs that made me start thinking outside the box about what kind of dogs were on police depts. 

I am not seeking or caring about your approval, however, I do enjoy pointing out that you sold two shitters to a police dept. I also doubt that we will be hearing from them. Feel free to ask them to invite me to Illinois and to work those two dogs on camera so that they can see what the dogs look like when they are worked normally. LOL WOW wouldn't it be great if your dogs were the dogs that I ran off the field OH so many years ago ? It would be like a homcoming of sorts to run these dogs as well.

Still think I am seeking your approval ?? LOL

 Of course there will be some individual dogs also among showlines that could be decent policedogs, not so strange really, but common sense tells you there are more suited dogs among those lines breed for the work, even if far from all working GSDs and mals are good policedogs. If a policedog is good or not is also subjective due to the fact standards and selection differ alot across the USA I assume. Lack of aggresion and willignes to work long and hard is something that are missing also in workinglines of GSDs more and more according to some breeders.

Wow, I don't think I would be bragging about those videos.  I have to agree,no hunt drive.  I can go to the pound right now and in two weeks have a better drug dog.  You are not proving showlines can work. The only thing you have proven in those videos is that it is still possible to rip of a police depatment  

I stand by every word that I have posted with confidence and conviction. 

Quote:  It looks cool in the early training stages, but later on, a year or two, many dogs just follow the hand, and stop really searching. Too many green handlers, or I should say handlers, give clues to the dog, and the dog just looks for them.


This is entirely incorrect.  What happens in a year or two, is a dog that searches intently, systematically and thoroughly by themselves.  The do not require a hand to guide them, they are able to complete a thorough and accurate search independently with significantly less chance of error or missed finds.

However, it would appear that we have lost the ability to hold an adult discussion, some have resorted to immature and petty tactics such as name-calling, accusations and profanity.  Perhaps it is time to simply agree to disagree and allow this thread to return to its original topic.

Jeff, I assure you that we are doing great here in IL and you are absolutely not needed.  I am sure that you have plenty of work to do in your own neck of the woods.  Best of luck to you and I hope you enjoy the rest of your day.

 Quote: This is entirely incorrect.

According to who ? You are just quoting what you have been told. You have WAY too many holes in your "explanations" to be doing anything else.

I am sure you do not want me to come home and bang those dogs right out of a job. LOL 

 Quote: However, it would appear that we have lost the ability to hold an adult discussion, some have resorted to immature and petty tactics such as name-calling, accusations and profanity. Perhaps it is time to simply agree to disagree and allow this thread to return to its original topic.

What adult discussion ? Go back and read where you have absolute confidence in whatever you have been told. You are not discussing shit. You are just a repeater.

I point out basic things, and you do not discuss the lack of drive, and you avoid the issue. I didn't even start on the bitework. Good grief. Training is not going to cover up the lack of drive ever.

How about the fact that all the items you mentioned stink to high heaven ? I guess you were not in on that discussion, so you were unable to repeat it. 

The original topic should be people like you destroyed what the breed was, were too pig headed to go and see what is really out there, or to weak to deal with what is out there, and so you created the shitter dog with pretty movement from the side only.