Schutzhund "full calm hard bite" (no fight?) - Page 8

Sunsilver,

Thanks for sharing, those hounds are so impressive indeed

Ibrahim

Sunsilver,
Very interesting read. 

What type of bite would cause a criminal to give up the quickest? Guessing if the dog does a full-hard bite, shaking would only make matters worse for whoever is receiving the bite? Curious as to whether dogs that are trained on sleeves or other protective gear bite the same when a person has no protective gear on.

I've got access to over 20yrs of data on this subject; we employ 3 ladies just to collate data on use of force including dog bites and it can be surprising. Our long and dull meeting would include graphs on all use of force, time of day, numbers present, age of offenders, failed tactics, age of dog, failed bites et etc.

Our dogs are predominantly trained to be right arm true with overt sleeves, despite this most of the street bites are are to the calf, thigh and buttocks. In heated fights which we have plenty where the offender is fighting the dog and handler the bites can quickly switch about the body. That said on Monday Night I saw a 7yr GSD from the Von der Valken kennels  take a fleeing offender on the right arm but so hard they both fell through a 6 x 8 fence panel. Can I add our K9 Trainers generally consider schutszhund, KNPV and Ring to be voodoo so our training in bite work is not advanced and it's heavily focused on tracking.

Which leads to me to the second point; the perception of surrender with an effective bite. The dog doesn't get this bit, and if you were being ragged by a GSD it's very hard to lie still and stop screaming which keeps the dog going even more.

I feel what happens with K9's is similar to human experience in conflict; you're taught one thing, then you go out and try it, then you gradually adapt it to the good or bad experiences until you find what works for you. 24yrs ago as a young police officer we all had to learn Tai Jutsu,I loved it being a product of the 1970's but as soon as I went out on the streets and tried to start bending peoples arms about I got put on my ass, a lot.
Hence many cops use the old headlock as it works 99% of the time.
I believe this principal of maximizing your safety whilst effectively trying to deal with the threat is part of the learning curve for dogs, hence the bites to the lower limbs and I haven't mentioned most bites are using the front teeth, I've haven't seen many full calm grips unless the offender is being dragged out of a hiding area.

Personally I feel the bites to the thighs are easier and more reliable to target, cause a huge amount of pain as opposed to traumatic injury this is important as it interrupts the though process of the offender, incapacitate quickly by often taking the offender to the ground, and maximize the safety of the dog by keeping distance between the hands/weapons and the dog. I'm not including guns in this for obvious reasons.

Ronin





 

Ronin,

Thanks for your input. Very interesting indeed.

Thanks Ronin, interesting commments. I guess from that stand-point teaching ring makes more sense, to have the dog bite in the lower-body.

Was just thinking, does training a dog in schutzhund automatically make him a bad protection dog? Does schutzhund teach "bad-habits"?