Which lines/breeders would YOU choose to protect your family?

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by Ace952 on 27 August 2010 - 17:08

You guys brought up a good point about some breeders not selling the top dogs to the regular joe blow b/c he may not end up titling them or using them to their full potential. ow often do you think this happens? I saw one breeder who offered money back to the buyer if they did title. The more titles the more money he would pay you. Seems like a smart way to me and a win-win situation for both parties. That way the dog gets known and it helps the breeder show what the litter has produced. I have a dog coming in 4 weeks and even though I'm not interested in titles i would do it if the breeder kicked some money back for each title gained.

Jenni...you make a good point about new people not knowing if what they are seeing first hand is good or not. The next question is then, how do you inform/educate a novice about what is good and what is bad about what they are seeing? I will use myself for example. I ahve no clue when I see bite work being done if what the dog is doing is good or bad. Hell I just learned on here that decoy's play a large part in training. I thought that they were just a just in a sleeve or suit who lets the dog bite, thats it.

by KYLE on 27 August 2010 - 18:08

Dog training folk mostly trade techniques with fellow trainers. If you have been involved in the sport for any period of time you see newbies come and go all the time. If you want to learn you have to educate yourself. This forum is not the wealth of knowledge it used to be. Once upon a time this board was filled with trainers from Germany and Belgium that loved talking about sport and giving tips freely. Then the lurkers, opininated and uninformed started espousing their PC view points. Slowly, the great ones left the forum.

Find a club, attend REGULARLY, keep your mouth shut, do what is asked of you. Because you are new, your dog will be worked last. Tracking is very early in the morning. Obedience is done next, grip work is traditionally done last. Each club is different. Some are more social. Some are more business like (lets get 'er done and go hom). Some are more competition minded.

Yes Virginia, a schutzhund club can train a personal protection dog. But not all clubs are created equal.

Learn what some of the great working line dogs are, hint, google famous working line german shepherds. Its out there but you have to go and get it.

The helper is everything in grip / bite work. As a newbie you must learn what drives. The dogs bark actually sounds different in different drives. The helper / decoy can make a good dog look bad and a bad dog look good.

Kyle

by jade on 27 August 2010 - 20:08

...czech n ddr .comes natlurally

by Jacko on 28 August 2010 - 04:08

You can get a great puppy being a joe blow. You just don't know how many times a VA dog has had a story of going out and coming back or becoming co-owned.

Just know what you are looking for, be patient, and get what you want.

My latest puppy has a lot of potential. In the end he is exactly what I want so as much as I would like him to stack up well against others, in the end, it won't matter he is my buddy. However, I expect he will do well.

Kyle, well said

by blair built gsd on 28 August 2010 - 04:08

You can get a pup out of top lines and the breeder know that you don't plan to title but you want a sound ppd. I don't think that will be as big a problem as the puppy crap shoot you talked about. What about going after a little older dog not over a year maybe 6 months to a year old. If you could find a good one you could get a better idea of what you will be getting have more of a idea about temperament. I see these kinds of dogs all the time for sale you could find you just what you want and could possibly find a bargain. I would be open to all lines unless you have one you have to have or one you wont have you can get what you want out of all the lines. Be ready to spend a lot of time looking at dogs and see for yourself what you are getting listen to the breeder but make your own decision.

by charlie319 on 28 August 2010 - 05:08

As far as protecting my family, Smith & Wesson comes to mind... Ruger and Winchester also come to mind.

by duke1965 on 28 August 2010 - 06:08

nice charly , but what will smith and wesson do for you when your sound asleep ,or if they are two rooms away from you

iff you call them will they come to you

I agree most on kyle's last post , but DONT keep your mouth shut, do what is asked of you.
If you want to learn , ask why they want you to to this and that , dont just do stuff your told and shut up because than you will leave that club later on ,nowing as much as the first time you came there

as far as the OP , if you avoid breeders that breed for show , breeders that breed for toprankings in sport(points to points)
and breeders that breed the flavour of the day , your far more than halfway there , and your chances of getting what you want will improve

by yoshy on 28 August 2010 - 07:08

If i may contribute-

I would like to say those in reputable business that procure dogs for police brokering and executive protection work sift through hundreds of candidates. Knowing a handful of people in this business niche its almost astonishing to see the test criteria and how many dogs they go through. Traveling across Europe for a week hitting 10-15 clubs/breeders and 100's of dogs to find 10 suitable candidates. The selection process is an extremely taxing venture.

Playing off of Jenni and others posts.

Many have stated pieces of information regarding reading a dog within its protection work. I'm sorry you will not be able to do this from reading a book. You would need to be in front of a great many dogs backed by someone to explain exactly what you are seeing. Meaning someone with a great deal of knowledge in this field. It doesn't happen quickly. People spend there lives trying to learn!

Honestly if i was in search of a family protection dog and i hadn't owned one previously and were of limited knowledge regarding criteria for evaluation, training, and maintenance. I would ask the question who is a respected person to assist me in the venture of procuring a pup-green dog-trained young adult for Family protection. Asking for lines and doing it on your own I fear you will meet with little success. This is not meant to be demeaning in the least. It is simply a reality with percentages of 1st time buyers truly procuring a dog suitable for the task they are looking for.

Also by consulting a place of business with dealings in executive protection dogs you should receive a handler course included with purchase of any dog. Generally these are very informative and essential for teaching how to handle and bond with these style dogs effectively. Though there are many people that do this that will gladly sell you a mediocre product for an astronomical price ranging 15-60+k. You should be able to find a fully trained ground ready dog for 5-8k with a informative handler course attached. Handler courses also normally are 7-14days. If i were you and are genuinely concerned and want a FPD this is the route i would take. Also they will generally be able to assist you in maintain the dogs training and furthering your knowledge throughout the dogs life.

However regardless of your decision i hope you find someone trustworthy and knowledgeable to help you on you adventure
and best of luck finding the pup or dog you desire.

by Carlin on 28 August 2010 - 11:08

-yoshy while i would not consider myself "green" in the realm of gsd's in general (after 33 years with them), I do however, recognize that i have only scratched the service of a wealth of knowledge and experience that, as you have said, some people aquire over a lifetime. Knowing how ill-equipped I am in this process, I rely heavily on what those people have to say. Where I am not disadvantaged, is in dealing with, working with, and doing business with many different people in many different places. Right now, I'm shopping the people as much as I am shopping the dog. This post was meant to gain insight into where experienced breeders would go for their own safety and well being, because their many years of experience in the area speak volumes. Unfortunately, very little in life is absolutely cut and dry. I'll give you an example. I have been in contact with what i consider to be an honest, experienced, knowledgable breeder, discussing some what they have done in the past and have going on now and in the near future. I have gotten some valuable advice imo. Part of the advice was an admonition that 2 great dogs will not always reproduce their "greatness", and so pairings with proven offspring should have greatest consideration. A few days go by, and the breeder is touting a pairing they have, not only without proven progeny, but without any progeny at all. I don't particularly feel as though they are intentionally leading me down the wrong path, but I'm also not the type of person to allow a doctor to amputate the big toe on my left foot to cure a headache just because he went to school and he knows how. Now, I know nothing of this persons dogs, but i really don't need to do i? Hopefully, with time, i'll get to where i need to be. If i do not, it won't be for lack of effort, it'll be because the days of joe american being able to get a real gsd a thing of the past. At that point, i'll just finish the chainlink, and "release the kraken" that is my heinze 57 mutt that we rescued, who's favorite pastime

by Carlin on 28 August 2010 - 12:08

to be attacking anything that moves including the occasional wild boar.

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