Question to Working Line Breeders - Page 8

And, unless you freely give your remaining pups away, by your definition would make us both "commercial breeders", unless you happen to keep all of your pups.

I was not refering to your post at all.  I don't "breed for the public".  Period. I breed for my own use. I place pups (for free) with people I know who want what I have. But I don't advertise, don't charge for pups, don't produce for resale. Not sure what you do, but it has nothing to do with my post.  BTW: My dogs are all titled and health tested, the sire is SchH III, FR Brevet; I'm not breeding backyard pets. But I do happen to believe that good dogs should be shared among like minded sports friends as gifts, not commotities.  

As to the three year comment that caused one viewer such angst, I just think that IF someone is going to title a dog, if they are serious about it, then they will probably have *something* on the dog, if only a B, by the dog's third B-day.  The reason I say this is that at least in MY breed,  you have tons of breeders saying things like "I place my pups in SchH homes" when the "pups" are 6 years old and not titled. That, to me, is NOT a "working home".  Make sense to you now? 

"I wish your question had elicited responses from more workingline breeders, and who knows maybe it still will?"

Actually, Steve, it did.

Well, both.  I've been in dogsport over 30 years, and in the American pit bull breed over 20 years. So, I know quite a few folks and am known to quite a few.  People seem to either like what I try and do or loath it.  : )   

I breed infrequently. I was in the breed over ten years before I bred my second litter (first one was an accidental breeding while the bitch was on a contraceptive).  Based on the issue of my health and mobility, I decided to make a couple breedings rather quickly, to put to the test what I had learned while studying the breeder's art and with the hope I could produce what I wanted while still able to work it. 

So I have produced a few litters over the past few years, learning so darn much with each one! : )   I did have a nice backlog of friends who wanted what I am trying to produce/preserve. And, I cull heavily because to be honest the world does not need more American pit bulls, it needs better ones.  My breed is hellish hard to find responsible, appropriate homes for - more so when you are breeding the real deal rather than some fat, dead head blue am staff  stuff - so I would rather euthanize than simply pawn off pups that didn't make the grade.  I know some people find this cruel, and my advice to them is not to breed.  Nuff said.

When I was young in the sport, some people were very kind to me, in giving me dogs that would have cost a lot - and I never forgot that or what it ment to me.   I wanted to repay to the sport I love, and to dog sport in general, if I could by doing the same.   I, like some others on here have expressed, have never understood the mentality of those who would not GLADLY hand over a good pup to an excellent trainer!  I am a poor person, living on a small disability, but I can still afford to do all OFA health checks, and title my dogs - so I don't believe this "you have to charge to support your hobby".

Anyway, if I can give someone coming up in the sport a great pup I think it is a good thing. (shrugs)

If i ever breed a litter from Izzy providing she gets all her Titles well and gets korclassed She may then be mated to a top Working line Dog who has performed well at WUSV level, and the mate will be certainly worked out for her by me regards work Lines etc and Shape  Temperament. Should the mating take place  i would gladly give a couple of the Pups free to very good trainers known by me if they wanted one, no strings attached,
Just to know that they will be worked fair and given every chance to show if the mating was correct, that to me is more important than money
Steve1

"And, I cull heavily because to be honest the world does not need more American pit bulls, it needs better ones. My breed is hellish hard to find responsible, appropriate homes for - more so when you are breeding the real deal rather than some fat, dead head blue am staff stuff - so I would rather euthanize than simply pawn off pups that didn't make the grade. I know some people find this cruel, and my advice to them is not to breed."

Maybe you should take your own advice and not breed yourself.  If the world already has enough pit bulls and some you are breeding warrant culling, it's hard to come to the conclusion that you're breeding "better" versions of the breed.  So how, exactly, do you "cull" these dogs and at what age(s)?

I'm a Malinois breeder, not a GSD breeder.  Oh, and I'll throw out there, I do consider a "farm home" a working home.  Well, maybe a better name for it would be ranch home, but I've placed a number of dogs with people who do have livestock and were looking for a dog to do dual duty as a protection dog and working their livestock.

For exact numbers you'd have to look at my website, every pup I've produced is on there with information on what they were purchased for, what titles/certifications they obtained, a description of the dog, some photos, etc.  I would say on average 80% of my pups go to working/performance homes, mainly because I rarely sell to a strictly pet home.  Some of the homes are protection sport homes (Schutzhund, FR, MR), others are doing SAR, herding, obedience, agility, etc.  Some pups are raised up for police work (single or dual purpose), others are doing detection work with private individuals/companies.  Some are trained as personal protection dogs, a few have been assistance dogs. 

Of the dogs that have gone into protection sport homes, I'd say maybe 50% actually go on to title at some level.  Sometimes it's an issue with the dog, in which case I try to make it right, other times it's simply a case of the person deciding they no longer have the time or interest or their club broke up and they can't find another one.  I sell pups to a wide variety of experience levels, from newbies to people who are aiming for the World team, I try to "vet" the homes and make sure they do have the desire and support system neccessary to achieve their goals before selling them a pup, but "life happens".  I've got some very nice dogs, with really good training on them, sitting in "pet homes" right now, that I'm hoping will some day hit the trial field, but it just isn't a priority anymore for the owners.  On the up side, the dogs are sitting in the home as a pet, not in a kennel somewhere being ignored.

I breed for me though, nobody else.  Which means I breed what I personally like, not what is "in vogue" at the moment.  If I could get a litter of 1 each time, the right gender and quality, I'd be quite happy, but since I usually get 7-10, I do sell pups.   If I don't personally keep something from a litter I breed, then I have something on a co-own.  Or I'm looking at the males as possible stud dogs somewhere down the line.  I'm always thinking a couple generations ahead, breedings I do today have been in the works for a few years and are being done with a goal of how they will fit into the plan down the line.  My current litter was done specifically in the hopes of producing a couple really nice boys that could be bred to females I already have, to tighten things up over the next couple of generations.

For anyone who cares to look for actually numbers/statistics, my website is www.dantero.com

Spade stated:

Just curious what the percentage or ratio of your puppies that are in working homes vs pet homes. I doubt I'll get a bunch of responses.     Curious?   No, you are not curious -- you are just wanting to start the Tired, Worn-Out Argument over Show Line vs Working Line and, of course, bring into the conversation the "Lowly Pet."


Just seems to me that if I was breeding for a purpose and most of what I produced was going to be farm/pet homes, I would reconcider my actions.    Good, I hope you refrain from Breeding anything.

Maybe I would breed less often or only breed when I already had working homes for most of a litter. How else do you evaluate your puppies?    You evaluate their HEALTH and TEMPERAMENT.

I'm not saying that every puppy needs to be K9 or sport. I understand there are people out there that want working line GSDs for the family. Just curious what some of you have produced.    There's that sham "curiosity" again !


Spade further stated:

I really don't even think about showlines.    Funny how that works -- I really don't even think about Working Lines.
 

But since you brought it up, I'll bite. You're a breeder. I'm sure you've gotten a regular Joe Shmoe call for a pet, right? Most of them want the black and tan pretty dog anyhow, right?    Geez, I didn't know that pet owners are regular Joe Shmoe's.   You are wrong, most of the Shmoe's want a beautiful Black and RED dog -- not Black and Tan.

They don't want high drive with active aggression. They want the sheep in wolve's clothing. If you are truly breeding decent working prospects, most pet owners cannot handle them or don't have the time to fullfil their drive.    You are right -- MOST people do not want an overly aggressive dog.   We Love our dogs.   We don't think of them as a commodity to be "dumped" when the dog doesn't show enough "bad-ass aggression" to fulfill our egos.   

I would think that as a breeder, I'd steer a person in another direction(lab) or if they just had to have a GSD, I'd recommend they look at showlines.    You are so clueless.

To me, that's all they are good for, is a pet. Please, all showline people, don't get into a tizzy! It's just not what I'm into. I don't care if that's what you're into. It is your right.    Please, don't start with the BS -- it is already too deep in here just from your posts.   Too bad that you cannot think of a dog as as "living creature" and to love it for what it is.   You are obviously ego-driven.

The German Shepherd is ONE Breed .... but there are different "types" within the Breed.     You also can't seem to grasp  Freedom of Choice / Preference.   I'm not going to start bashing the Working Line.   I would suggest that you should show some consideration of the owners of Show Lines, and stop