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by Bob McKown on 21 December 2009 - 18:12
Snaip:
I,ll give you that one.
I,ll give you that one.
by Bob McKown on 21 December 2009 - 18:12
The other problem is after you take your dgo to a salvage yard a couple times or have the decoy run up on a car to give the grip or work the dog there they tend to find it cool to do it at home that is until they jump up on the wifes Cadillac or the county sheriffs car when they come to thank you for donating a dog to there program...
by snajper69 on 21 December 2009 - 18:12
You saying that teaching my dog to jump on the roof of my older car was a mistake? lol hahahahaha ;)
by snajper69 on 21 December 2009 - 19:12
Well this topic been refreshing for me. And with Jim analysis of my dog, I know where I will go from here. As much as I would love to be solely concentrated on SCH I just think that my dog and myself will benefit more from incorporating, suit, hidden sleeves, and muzzle work. I might not end up with a SCH titles but it will help me more in evaluation of my dog abilities, as well I think it will make me a better handler. Plus I do enjoy training for different scenarios more than training for SCH routine. I still hope to put SCH title on my female at one point, but for now I think finding what my dog is build for is just more important. So I will be busy in the next month to come. My suggestion to all is, have fun with your dog and don't be afraid challenging him/her, these dog welcome challenge and you as a handler will only benefit from knowing your dog limitation and expending your views. Thanks to all of you that engaged in this topic, and were able to share your experience and views without being negative or not constructive. ;)
by Prager on 22 December 2009 - 00:12
snajper69
Do not stop doing SchH if you enjoy it. Just do not rely on it as only form of evaluation. Once< when I was younger, I climbed mountain with the guy who was experienced mountain climber. And he said to me: "If you climb do not relay on vegetation."
I said "OK I will not use vegetation." And he said: "That is not what I said. You can use it, but do not rely on it"
Same thing about SchH.
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com
Do not stop doing SchH if you enjoy it. Just do not rely on it as only form of evaluation. Once< when I was younger, I climbed mountain with the guy who was experienced mountain climber. And he said to me: "If you climb do not relay on vegetation."
I said "OK I will not use vegetation." And he said: "That is not what I said. You can use it, but do not rely on it"
Same thing about SchH.
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com
by snajper69 on 22 December 2009 - 14:12
Hans I will defenitely continue training for SCH, it's just not going to be my sole are of focus. I was already heading that direction any way. I enjoy challanging my dog, and myself, I def. incorporate parts of SCH rutine in my training, but I like the idea of working my dog on hidden sleeves, suit as well. So I am def going expending my view, once I achive some of the things that I have in mind I will def circle back and work toward at least SCH I for my female.
by mewoodjr on 22 December 2009 - 14:12
Snajper69,
I feel your pain when talking about your dog getting so intense that it doesn't want to bark. My 2 year old male is like that. And just like Slamdunc said... it's like he's a sprinter at the blocks. I have been lucky to have Eric Beasley as my TD/Helper. It is fun to watch Eric and Capone tussle. Capone just doesn't see anyone as a threat. We have had to put some hard defensive threats on to get him to unlock. I am very lucky though, because he is very clear in the head and when he switches to civil you can't tell except the tone of his bark and he comes even harder into the helper. Then the fun begins. You can see him trying to figure it out, what can he do to get the bite. We have been able to keep his face barking down and any dirty punches in check. So it is a fine line. But every time we leave the field I have a huge smile on my face. I love a dog with a little attitude! I love to do other training with him from bark and holds in the bushes/woods/buildings, RH and FH training, and if given a chance I would love to do muzzle work, agility, and even Mondio. I think everyone should do some other types of training wether it is for Therapy, SAR, muzzle, RH, FH, etc.
Bob,
You of course know my friend Al Govednik and he is a lot like you that he really see's Schutzhund as a test of the dog. Both in teaching the Helpers and Judging. This is partly why he has been trying to bring back some of the old test into the AWDF titles... like the attack out of blind.
Back to the original post, I am a young helper so I have much to learn still, but through being mentored by Al & Eric and even at the National helpers college where James Laney, Mark Scarberry, and Armin Winkler were helping me... All of them stress the point that the helpers job is to "test" the dogs and if the work is done correctly a dog will either become stronger or weaker as the pressure is put on. They showed how during the attack phase a helper doing an incorrect attack primarily to the side will actually help a weak dog in the form of prey. But a true attack, one where the sleeve doesn't move but the helper does as he comes into the dog, and the stick passes right by the ears and over the eyes of the dogs... then the strong dogs will come out. There are many dogs that could... and should be run off the field. But there are a lot of dogs that if given the opportunity would fight the helper sleeve or not. It's a test... not the only test out there but it's a test.
Michael
www.woodhauskennels.com
I feel your pain when talking about your dog getting so intense that it doesn't want to bark. My 2 year old male is like that. And just like Slamdunc said... it's like he's a sprinter at the blocks. I have been lucky to have Eric Beasley as my TD/Helper. It is fun to watch Eric and Capone tussle. Capone just doesn't see anyone as a threat. We have had to put some hard defensive threats on to get him to unlock. I am very lucky though, because he is very clear in the head and when he switches to civil you can't tell except the tone of his bark and he comes even harder into the helper. Then the fun begins. You can see him trying to figure it out, what can he do to get the bite. We have been able to keep his face barking down and any dirty punches in check. So it is a fine line. But every time we leave the field I have a huge smile on my face. I love a dog with a little attitude! I love to do other training with him from bark and holds in the bushes/woods/buildings, RH and FH training, and if given a chance I would love to do muzzle work, agility, and even Mondio. I think everyone should do some other types of training wether it is for Therapy, SAR, muzzle, RH, FH, etc.
Bob,
You of course know my friend Al Govednik and he is a lot like you that he really see's Schutzhund as a test of the dog. Both in teaching the Helpers and Judging. This is partly why he has been trying to bring back some of the old test into the AWDF titles... like the attack out of blind.
Back to the original post, I am a young helper so I have much to learn still, but through being mentored by Al & Eric and even at the National helpers college where James Laney, Mark Scarberry, and Armin Winkler were helping me... All of them stress the point that the helpers job is to "test" the dogs and if the work is done correctly a dog will either become stronger or weaker as the pressure is put on. They showed how during the attack phase a helper doing an incorrect attack primarily to the side will actually help a weak dog in the form of prey. But a true attack, one where the sleeve doesn't move but the helper does as he comes into the dog, and the stick passes right by the ears and over the eyes of the dogs... then the strong dogs will come out. There are many dogs that could... and should be run off the field. But there are a lot of dogs that if given the opportunity would fight the helper sleeve or not. It's a test... not the only test out there but it's a test.
Michael
www.woodhauskennels.com
by Bob McKown on 22 December 2009 - 15:12
me:
They should bring it all back but they won,t in Schutzhund trials. I,ll be doing more trialing in the AWDF thats for sure. I know Al and his brother Jeff but neither are as pretty as me!!!
They should bring it all back but they won,t in Schutzhund trials. I,ll be doing more trialing in the AWDF thats for sure. I know Al and his brother Jeff but neither are as pretty as me!!!
by Prager on 23 December 2009 - 19:12
Snajper
It is funny that some people pay me to stop their dog to bark and other pay me to make them bark. Try group aggitation. And bite reward if the dog barks. In Czech Military dogs were told not to bark in order not to allert potential enemy to their presence.
Just a thought.
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com
by snajper69 on 23 December 2009 - 20:12
Actually prager is funny because when I was training her towards PPD with my PPD dog we actually didn't care as we prefer the dog to not give away his/her position or intention. Now I am trying to bring it back lol I just want to associate with only one commend. that way I can have both.
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