The decline of the German Shepherd character - Page 75

Very good posts Prager, thank you for the info. I can say same for many participants, this has been a discussion of great benefit for me

mac obviously you are into showdogs and when you select on looks first and foremost and temperanent, caracter and health after you are contributing do the decline

of you want to avoid decline you have to breed with the fittest and mentally strongest, just as in the wild

 

about my third point you say that serious breeders have more pups than pet breeders you are way off , we can see all showline breeding as petproding breeding as they are 99% not going to workingjobs, than from workinglinebreeders there are only a limited number of breeders we can call serious breeders, many breed flavour of the day and mainly supply the pet market

So if you want to name a reason for decline it would be that in the old days there was no main money/petmarket, only the dogs that didnot measure up to top standarts were sold as guarddog/pet

if you want to replace tysons name for a V50 dog from show, genetics work the same, only problem is that V50 is rating given by people and based on looks so that wont do you much good in the caracter department

how dogs from serious breeders do in the wild, no problem if you have well balanced caracter, my dogs are born and raised without heatinglamps and whelpingbars, bitches take care of their own pups, throw up their food for the pups and eat barf , males are natural breeders

 

Duke,

 

is is it really from the strongest parents? Or is it from the strongest male? I thought the latter is correct, strongest male breeds all available females

Fourth Caracter , if we see caracter as total package of all drives, that will include prey and defencedrive and thus will include biting, agression in dogs is naturally there, if it comes to surviving(mating/food/defence on atacs)

Character includes 'total package of all drives' Plus; nerve strength, instincts which can be shaped/controlled through training which requires discernment, intelligence, bidability and a bond with handler.....all of this is useless in a less than structurally sound, athletic body.

if female isnot strong and able to survive she doesnot reproduce

will ad to that

if female doesnot have milk pups will die

if female cannot breed natural there will be no pups

if female cannot give birth, female and pups will die

if female is bad producer and pups are weak/soft pups will die

 

This discussion has lead to my favorite canine topic - survival characteristics.  I think it would be difficult to pinpoint survival characteristics in the GSD breed today other than the most basic of accomplishing reproduction and assuring survival of the offspring. I am basing that on the original intent of the breed no longer being what most most are breeding for; the breed has evolved from a tending dog to what we have today. Could one of the foundation dogs have been a protection dog, a sport dog, a show dog, and so forth? Subject for a new thread or just something to think about?

Again, instincts: 'if female cannot breed natural there will be no pups

if female cannot give birth, female and pups will die

if female is bad producer and pups are weak/soft pups will die'

This is what I said pages ago, that selection for instincts is being neglected. And without instincts, not only is reproduction being compromised, but the instincts that the breed is comprised of is compromised...without instincts their cannot be a working dog.

Could one of the foundation dogs have been a protection dog, a sport dog, a show dog, and so forth?

Why couldn't they? They had instincts that made them desirable for breed foundation, instincts are needed for training. Would they have been great sport dogs, or show dogs? I doubt if the handlers would have even considered them for that if it was available as there is no real life application in the two. Protection is one of the traits of a herding dog. Remember, this is the German shepherd, not sheptender.

Instincts- the ability to breed, and produce offspring that can survive without human intenvention is the only survival characteristic this breed has or has ever had as far as I can  see. It's essentially a man made breed that was modified over the years by artificial selection to fit the needs of individual humans. Repro vets, hormones, dogs that won't breed naturally - not good for any breed IMO.