Experiences from breeding showlines with working lines - Page 7

Daryl, I thought it was funny, and your timing, spot on.  Especially since I am known to respond to the visual, as in other flashy, showy things!  LOL 

Funny !! :) Knew you had a sense of humor,too, Beetree.

You're right Daryl, I have no sense of humor and I am busy trying to walk the walk.

I don't like directing negative remarks at no one, but I big the pardone of workingline enthusiasts to say this comment, isn't it odd that most of you did not recognize what makes a good Police dog and what drives he needs to accomplish his work till Jim explained it for you and yet some tried to challenge him !!!!, he the one who trains and accompanies Police dog at real life threatening jobs and yet a fancier imagines something else is more important for the dog to do work which he knows nothing about !!!. I think many of you are living in fancy and in few years your workingline may have worse defects than the show due to your denial.
It is your choice to deny workline setback, but for many showline enthusiasts they started adressing showline problems and what they're producing shall be sought for in future by both show and work breeders.
Isn't it true that we do not hear such extremist remarks from knowlegable workline enthusiasts such as Gustav, .... etc, does that tell us something? !!!!
I can understand and respect difference in opinion but I can not understand degrading the hard work of other's. I don't believe all who claim knowlege of workingline know what they're talking about, I am ready to hear and learn from anyone who has done some true achievements, I know something about Daryl, Duke and few others, but I see teaching from so many whom we or at least I know nothing about and never heard about their dogs, can you please tell us what you've achieved so far with your dogs so we know who is talking and what credits he/she has !!!
So no one feels ashamed to confess the truth, I for one did not achieve nothing with my dogs, neither the showline nor the workline, but I do not teach others, I listen, ask, learn and sometimes make a comment. Please no one should hate me for this but I really feel bad.

Ibrahim

I know a breeder who have tried to breed working and show but stopped because the results wasn´t the same in health. The showlines the last 20 years seems to be so different compared  the workinglines that I can´t see what is supposed to be better by mixing them. As long the dog can work hard and is healthy that should be priority number 1, at least if you don´t worry about "pretty" looks, which is very subjective anyway.

I always thought that trot is one very important thing about the correct GSD to be able to accomplish work with minimum effort and it's called endurance. Another important thing is the temperament and courage. A GSD is described as being able to do various work such as SAR, Protection, Track etc. I thought that the standard is important to follow to keep the breed as it was intended to be, or am I wrong?
I admit that the Show breeders who only concentrate on beauty and trot but forgot about temperament etc did wrong to the breed.
What about workline breeders who concentrated on temperament, agility etc and forgot about trot/endurance, aren't they doing wrong to the breed ? !!!!!! Can someone amswer that for me please?!!!
P.s: To workline enthusiasts: Why do 99% of workline GSDs are pictured in stance if correct structure is of no importance?!!!

Ibrahim 

Ibrahim, I agree that working line breeders who do not care about correct structure as just as bad as the opposite.  Correct structure not only helps to main endurance but also helps prevent injury, allows for a longer working life and a more effecient dog in the work.  However, I do not think that good working structure always = what wins in the show ring.  I have seen some G rated Kkl2 dogs who had very nice working structure and worked long hard days without any problems, easily ran an AD without any prepwork, could run, jump, sprint, turn on a dime, climb or trot all day long.  

A good breeder will take both sides into consideration... whether they are breeding working lines, show lines or combining them.  JMO of course.

GSD2727 I totally agree, very reasonable, and I add that it is not the majority of showlines are over angulated, rather it is the minority, the problem is that many showline breeders think overangulation = winner and that is why in many cases pick of the litter is the more angulated one and temperament, courage and work ability comes after.
On the other hand the problem with the work breeders is many think the high drives puppy who bites more than its littermates = winner and it's the pick of the litter, not the balanced one with correct structure who has good courage. Problem is on both sides, some admit it and some just go on denying it.

Ibrahim

I thought that the standard is important to follow to keep the breed as it was intended to be, or am I wrong?

Ibrahim, you can't be wrong if you follow the standard.   I am convinced that there are lifestyle environments that the SL continues to excel in, above and beyond the couch, in which the qualities set forth in the standard are those same qualities that appealed in the first place.

hello Ibrahim, good to hear from you. I do think that some tend to forget that there may be many here, myself included, who find discussions such as this not only interesting but educational. It is always useful to hear views from people who have experience across a broad spectrum of the GSD world. And I for one, appreciate those who have this experience taking the time to share it with those who do not.

The fly in the ointment is always those who cannot share this experience rationally, view every other opinion/view as rubbish or worse yet do not have the experience/accomplishments to even be advising others what to do.

jmo,

Rik