Color Trend When Breeding - Page 7

"Just as I would remove the dog from my program that produced any other serious fault to the standard repeatedly when bred to any partner."

Might wanna reword that one.  If you allowed it to repeat a serious fault, how many repeats to call for removal?

It would depend on the individual circumstances - what fault the dog was proven to produce, how serious the fault was, if the obvious first step of not repeating that litter (sire paired with the dam that produced it) didn't eradicate the SERIOUS fault - then it wouldn't take me much more than that to take a dog PROVEN TO PRODUCE a specific SERIOUS fault that it was proven to produce "no matter who it is bred to", from my program.  I am not one to throw the baby out with the bathwater, but yes it wouldn't take proving it over and over again to get the point across to myself.

Hasn't happened to me, so this is all "what ifs" not speaking from personal experience.

molly

Thanks for the reply Molly......how about anyone else??.....any other breeders out there?

Molly, yes I think we are on the same page as I better understand what you mean. I don't beleive in breeding for colors, unless it is a compensation breeding to improve an aspect, like faded pigment, etc. If two dogs of mine produced a blue, I wouls not use it in my breeding program as it is faulted in standard as opposed to brindle which is really not addressed but was once accepted. The problem comes in that the parents of the blue pup, also have sisters and brothers that have the same genetics that may not have produced this color but are capable genetically. So if I produced a blue, I wouldn't repeat that particular breeding of the parents, but would breed them to other mates. In the big scheme of things I breed for working dogs and though I don't advocate advancing blues, its not a high enough priority to eliminate the parents if they have been good producers. Just change the formula for them. Not saying I'm right or wrong, just my take.

This doesn't make sense to me; hoping someone can explain. I thought liver and blue puppies had to have TWO dilute-carrying parents...and that being the case, wouldn't one just have to be sure that those two specific dogs were never bred to each other again?

" allowing those colors - no.  producing them from parents who are normal colored, without the knowledge that they would produce the color (blue, liver, white) - sure, how could you avoid it?  If this happened to me (never has, hopefully never will) I would "cull" the odd-colored puppy - and no that does not mean kill it - it means making 100% sure it is never used for breeding.  I would then try to determine which parent the color came from - if that is possible - and never repeat that breeding again."   

Actually I was just using blue/liver as examples of a serious fault to the standard that could be produced from two "normal" parents, without the breeder knowing they would produce these faults until they "just happened" and how I would then attempt to avoid it in future litters (not repeating that litter, finding out if possible which dog carried the "bad gene" and choosing future breeding partners carefully from then on so as not to reproduce the same problems - this could be color, health, temperament, nerve strength, or structural faults.   Just using color as an example.  I actually have very little knowledge in the ways and hows of producing blue, liver and white.   Have not been there, done that, yet.  Hopefully won't, ever.

Wow, 70 or 80 litters and no experience with off colors? Amazing. You are seriously beating the odds.

I think you'll find it has a lot to do with the general stock you're selecting from, otherwise a lot of others should be considered very fortunate as well.  I don't think that the general imported workinglines of even moderate quality breeding stock have many issues with off colors.  There are certainly enough other faults to conted with though, like ears, eyes, hips and elbows, testicles...  I seem to recall something about Eagle, but it must not have been true after all.

that is correct - NO experience with off colors.  NONE.  Not even ONE. 

molly