Thanks for the help... - Page 7

Hi Ruger,

It is almost like information overload.

I would find someone you trust who is a pro and stick with them.

All this advice has to be overwhelming.

SP

So Jim, in a case like this would you every use an E-collar??  Especially if the handler is not strong enough for a really powerful correction;  knowing timing would be crutial.   In the old days if a dog did what Ruger is describing you would take him down on his back and hold him there until he stops acting up and submits.  That of course is the old days,  but if a person is not strong enough to make an impression on this young dog even with a prong I just see further problems and a not so pretty ending.  Nan

I'm with Jim, I seriously doubt this is fear aggression. I think the one experience with the trainer has you second guessing this, and I find most owners want to label aggression as fear, I think people feel it absolves their dog of "mean dog" status.

I have seen this over and over and over, with all lines, but these lines in particular. For some reason, nine months seems to be the magic age for these males to step it up a notch.

Deanna, he is not a mean, nasty, unstable dog. Yet. He is a stereotypical strong male GSD with no definitive leader deciding he is no longer a baby and is going to take charge. You must put a stop to it immediately, you two are standing on a precipice right now and the window to fix the problem is rapidly closing. After that you can no longer resolve it, you can only manage it.

Here are some common mistakes handlers at this stage make:

-Excuses. Throw them out the window, permanently. There is no excuse for a dog to act like an ass toward someone who is not doing anything threatening to them, especially a nine month old puppy.

-Tension. If you stress out everytime a person comes near him, Prince is thinking, "Hey- my mom was fine until this jerk walked up and now she's all tense, so WTF did this person do to set off mom? I'll teach them a lesson!" I know it's hard, but you have to relax and have confidence. A muzzle will help you with this, because you will KNOW he cannot hurt anyone.

-They forget to reward correct behavior!!! As Doberdoodle said, fixing aggression is more than just busting a dog's ass. If all he does is get creamed around  new people, he will have even more reasons to hate strangers. Most people err by waiting until the dog blows up to address them. Five people walk by, nothing, sixth person walks by, dogs blows up, BAM! correction...and the owner completely forgot to praise the dog for leaving alone the first five people that walked by. This is a small but vital step owners miss! If the owner tells the dog how awesome they are for accepting the first five people, by the time guy #6 walks by the dog is so proud at his own good behavior he isn't even bothered by the last person.

-Permitting half-assed obedience. We call it "obedience", not "compromise" for a reason! No, it is not ok for the dog to sit 45 degrees crooked on a sit while he stares someone down because, you know, he sat. His way is not good enough, it's your way or he gets a correction and no reward.



Just some observations I've made about people over years of working with punk teenage dogs just like Prince. I have a lot more but I'll end up writing a novel. I left you a message, call me anytime tomorrow. :)

Quick edit: NOOOOO e-collar! Not for this, no way!

Gee, I've resolved aggression issues with a water spray bottle.

3Shep2,
That is awesome that the water bottle worked for you.  In many cases with really aggressive dogs a spray bottle will not work.  Some dogs will just blow the water bottle off and it is not enough to stop their behavior.  We will work our K9's spraying water in their face and it doesn't deter them at all. 

Jim

 Lots of good advice for sure. But too darn much of it!
The advice is for sure sound and good but what good is it without seeing the dog and actually observing the interactions? 

Get off the computer and go to interview trainers in your area. Go watch them. Without your dog.
Then schedule private lessons. Once you found your trainer. Trust yourself and give him/her a chance. Do not drag everything you guys do to be discussed with the world. Too much confusion!!! After you learn a bit more hands on stuff yourself, theories about training, different approaches and such while gaining control of yourself and your dog then have your trainer assist you in working in the big bad world.

Find the balance between not knowing (as in something like not letting your dog play with everything he wants on his own time) and not knowing and not learning because of being to busy on the computer. 
This does not mean that you do not consume all and everything that may or may not pertain to dog training. But for heavens sake, quit making this a social event.

I too can tell how badly you are wanting to learn and how much your boy means to you. How badly you are wanting to make it work. But nothing will replace good old blood, sweat and tears. 

Unless you also use a spray of water in the face as a correction for when the dog doesn't sit or down, probably should not use it for aggression.  The collar correction is what a dog is taught to understand and respond to.

RE: KC's comment about excuses, funny & true.  A lot of my clients have rescue dogs and use the "he must have been abused" excuse, or some type of unknown past trauma that is a reason why the dog can't be corrected.  Doesn't apply here, but reminds me I had this one completely bat s**t crazy woman whose Akita had attacked 3 people, and she told me it was because he was abused.  I ask her how old the dog was when she got him.  She replies "8 weeks".  Sooo, he was abused in utero.  Oh, the excuses.  Tonight I was doing a 1st lesson with a DA dog and when the dog glanced at another dog the owner freaked NO!!! out yanked the dog close on the leash, and I was like hey, it's ok for her to look, shes a dog.  So you have to learn what to correct for and then also what to praise and give treats for, each little huff and growl has to be corrected, not just the big blow ups.

Jim
I would not expect water spray to be a determent to the mentality of K9s;  it is one means of correction I've utilized in working with my 6 Shepherds.

3Shep2,
I agree a spray bottle can be used to stop certain unwanted behaviors and is a good technique.  I'm just not sure it would be strong enough to affect the desired response with this dog.  For other behaviors it would probably work well, I think this dog needs a stronger correction. 


Jim