shock collars - Page 7

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by k9ulf on 24 January 2010 - 18:01

well Tess, perhaps I am not skilled enough for using an e-collar but as I said, I get my results. When my dogs chase a rabbit I whistle and they come back asking "Whats up?" trained without e-collar or leash and I can assure you, my dogs are very drivy and powerful. As long as I can achieve things like this I guess I dont need an e-collar or what do you think?

All the best
Ulf

by TessJ10 on 24 January 2010 - 18:01

LOL, I never said they weren't. As I said, if they're not your thing and you're getting results you don't like, you're right not to use them. Absolutely agree that if you're getting the results you want without them, why would you use them at all?

by k9ulf on 24 January 2010 - 19:01

If I compare the number of e-collars sold worldwide with the number of really succesful trainers using it that throws up another question. How many e-collars are in unskilled hands actually?

All the best
Ulf

by TessJ10 on 24 January 2010 - 19:01

Probably about as many as there are children in the hands of unskilled parents, and guns in the hands of unskilled gun owners, and cars in the hands of careless drivers, and just about the same as with any other thing in the world.

by Gustav on 24 January 2010 - 19:01

Good post, Tess!

by MaggieMae on 24 January 2010 - 20:01

k9ulf -- said As long as I can achieve things like this I guess I dont need an e-collar or what do you think?

-----------------

I say if you are getting results that YOU want, you are an Excellent Trainer !!

by BabyEagle4U on 24 January 2010 - 20:01

I think some of the problem with people useing the E Collar is their choice of how to educate themselves with the collar. I went to the TT clinic because I wanted to know how the electronic collar was designed and to learn all the button cheats for the best performance.

For example: the 500 G3 has 18 levels of continuous and 18 levels of momentary as listed ... but, you can use combinations and tones that give you 72 different beep(s) 28 vibrations with 36 vibrated warning corrections and 18 "shock" correction and best yet has a master neutral, kinda like a reset switch. This is serious training tool especially for a nerd and a dog. LOL That's like 100 commands a dog could learn on each E Collar G3. I think that's awesome.

So, if you learn right at the source you'll prolly appreciate your moneys worth. If you learn from a dog trainer ... well, we all know how that ends up.

And these bastards don't think Americans can work ... paallleeeassseeeeeeeeee ... these Collars are 100 % American worker made. Ohhh the irony !!!

Can't wait for the 500 G3PS .... That would bring a whole new meaning to search and rescue I think, especially on air supports.

by TessJ10 on 24 January 2010 - 20:01

"Good post, Tess!"

Thanks, Gustav.

by Slamdunc on 24 January 2010 - 20:01

Tess,
I just read the article in SchH USA, it was a very good article and made some excellent points. I recommend anyone interested in E collars to read the article, it was well written and covered many of the points discussed here.

Two Moons,
Duck, (are you out of Geritol or didn't get your senior citizen discount at Denny's recently you are grumpier than usual)

I am wrong on how to properly use a shock collar?
I don't remember explaining any techniques involving the use of a shock collar.
I said they do not increase drive.

They can increase drive, through proper use and stimulation. They do increase drive when used correctly. They can also diminish drive and at times like any correction this is beneficial. Just as a prong collar can increase drive, escalate aggression and stimulate a dog to bark. A prong can also diminish drive and stop all of those same behaviors. There are times that you want to stimulate a dog and cause barking or initiate a behavior a prong or Ecollar can do both when used properly. A skilled trainer knows how to manipulate drive through various means to achieve a desired result, it's not always about compulsion and rarely ever about extreme corrections.

I'd rather feel that little tingle than a tug on a choke chain?
Put it to the test michael 49, I bet you'd change your mind after the fourth or fifth jolt.

I have tested E collars several times on myself, it is really not that bad especially compared to being tazed.

No argument that they are useful in the right hands, but it's obvious from being here on the message board for my time that the right hands are far and few between.

9 of 10 applies.

Now, on this point I do agree with you. For most people that only need to train their dog to walk on a leash or manners in the house an E collar is not necessary. For those with higher aspirations and want to train their dog for competitive sports they have a place. I understand the nuances and have had excellent results with the collar, but I expect more from my dog than most on the board do. I am also placed in situations on a regularly basis that require extreme control and precision. I will use any tool that makes my job easier and safer.

Now stop being so grouchy because someone doesn't agree with you.

Jim

by 4pack on 24 January 2010 - 20:01

It seems to increase drive/motivation in my dog. I get the best focus best heeling out of him with the e-collar. He can flatten out some without it but he still gets the job done, just not as bouncy/flashy. I get the same reaction with the harness though, so he just knows we aren't just screwing around when this stuff comes out, the bad guys are coming and we are on our best behaviour for the fastest bite. The dog is not dumb, he knows the correct behaviours, position, focus will get him what he wants faster.

My dog takes a e-collar correction like it doesn't happen, he outs or gets in the correct position without taking it like a personal correction/crank from the pinch, where he looks at me sideways, ears lay back or I get some sort of "I'm sorry mom" reaction from him. The E is just not seen as personal to him, he knows what it means/fix what your doing wrong but it enhances his work/drive, rather than takes from it. I'm a pretty hard handler and tough on my dogs, the e-collar is much more relaxed than getting personal with me.

I'm working on directional sends and multiple attackers right now and a e-collar is a life saver when the dog heads for the wrong decoy. I want him to have absolutely NO reward/bite even once on the guy I didn't point to. No way I could get such results with a long line and pinch, I'd be on the ground with a dislocated shoulder and the dog would probably still get the wrong bite. It has to be black and white, he bites who "I" pick, he doesn't get to figure out who tastes better, who makes the most noise, or who just pissed him off worse that day.

I also don't have an issue with him not outing or blowing me off when the E is not on him. When we are not at the field, he doesn't even have a flat collar on, we still take walks, do retrieves, OB, avoid chasing cats and all of that stuff by voice only.

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shock collars - Page 7

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