The decline of the German Shepherd character - Page 69

@susie: um das technisch/theoretisch im vollen zu diskutieren ist die 
informationsluecke zu gross und meine motivation lange thesen zu schreiben 
zu gering. aber:
    a) proportionalitaet und (klassische) wahrscheinlichkeit 
        treffen nur ein wenn viele wiederholung unter gleichen bedingungen 
        unabhaengig durchgefuerht werden. z.b., kopf oder zahl beim pfenningwerfen 
        kann 50, 100 mal kopf in folge sein; nur langfristig kann man die 50/50 
        verteilung unter klassischen verhaeltnissen erwarten.
        
    b) in der selectiven genetik/zucht muss man schon bayessche statisk 
        einsetzen  (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayessche_Statistik,
        http://pearl.plymouth.ac.uk/pearl_jspui/handle/10026.1/1286) ... lange rede 
        kurzer sinn: sollte der epigentische axiom halten, ist die wahrscheinlich-
        keit selective phaenotypische ausdruecke ueber viele generationen zu erhalten
        entschieden groesser als was die klassiche milchmaedchenrechnung vorschlaegt.
        natuerlich kann 'selective genetik' sowohl von mensch und natur verfolgt werden.
         
    c) beim dsh und speziell in der leistungszucht, um beim thema zu bleiben, 
        haben viele gute leistungszuechter gute selektionskriterien angewandt die sich
        langfristig als sehr gut proxies fuer vererbliche leistung anbieten: z.b.
        preferaenz fuer jute, volle/harte griffe,  sozialle aggression mit maessig 
        bis sehr gut asugepraegtem rudel/meutetrieb. diese phaenotypischen proxies 
        fuer eine genetische, und damit vererbare, grundlage fuer leistung
        sind schon lange wichtige kriterien in der leistungszucht und koennten als
        wirklichkeitsbeispiele fuer epistasis 'in der paxis' gelten. 
        
    d) obwohl die erhaltung von phaenotyischen merkmalen ueber viele generationen 
        unter selektiven bedingungen entschieden hoehere wahrschienlichkeitswerte 
        hat als sie annehmen, ist die basisvarianz natuerlich unveraendert hoch. 
        d.h., eine g'schlamperte 'fehlpaarung' genuegt und die harte arbeit der
        vorfaeterlichen zuechter ist am arsch -- hier schlaegt die hohe basis-
        varianz knallhart zu. als beispiel kann ich meinen crok v busecker schloss 
        sohn anbieten der, unter anderem, schon vor fast fuenfzig jahren sehr ausge-
        preagte jutepreferaenzen hatte wogegen mein eros vd wienerau sohn es schon
        nicht mehr hatte -- obwohl beide rueden ueber valet enkelinnen  kamen und valet
        selbst fuer seine jutepreferaenz bekannt war. 

arrivederci, servus, und good bye.

Black Malinois

Yes he is in the USA currently, Indiana I believe.  I may obtain a 4 year old son soon, good thing health care is free here ;).

VK it not my aim is not to insult you .But  talk has to have  limits You slag off everybody dogs insult them and when you run out  you become personal .And the you go and post a video like that reassuring me and everyone else your full of .I don't need to PM you  .I will say what i have to say right here. VK i don't know if anyone ever told you this but the world does not revolve around you and your dog is definitely not what you think he is .But the dog is not the hardest thing to watch in that video ?

What the heck, after 86 pages, I will take a stab at this.... I am going to comment on the video that VK posted ONLY.

I personally do NOT see a dog in prey drive, quite the opposite! The dog is in CONFLICT. Whether the conflict is between dog and handler or dog and helper or both I am not sure. I would have to see more videos.. But a dog in prey is not going to be growling and be as hectic when the sleeve is slipped or when he is on the sleeve for that matter too.

I in no way am saying this is a bad dog. Just one that is not being worked correctly. In fact, from the videos I have seen of him before, I feel that this actually could be a very well balanced dog IF worked CORRECTLY. I actually like the dog.... just do not like the way he is being worked.

JMO

^ agree, and of course i would love experienced helpers and an experienced TD to learn from, just not gonna happen.

 i might add the decoys in these clips are complete inexperienced newbs, guys basically doing this for a dare on the spot. you got get a bite anyway you can. i only have two vids with real decoys, will try find them.

thanks for actual input.

i don't want to cut YA VK .i am being polite . i was told by someone here i had a bad addutude on this site so i went to anger management its under control now .IF  i were you id take the advice of jyl bring that dog some where maybe a counselor

Although this is NOT a German Shepherd, I do like this dog. He is only 6 months old in the video, but is a well balanced dog.  When the sleeve is slipped at 1:17 in the video the dog is has a calm grip. There is no conflict. I do not know the handler/owner or the dog.... just have watched the video of him a couple times and actually really liked him. He is a nice working Terv.

VK,

No problem, I tell things how I see them... I am not going to claim to be a "know it all"... I have been doing PSA and SchH/IPO since 1996. I have learned alot over the years from some great people...  I just wanted to comment on the video since I did NOT see a dog in prey drive at all.

I do not think this dog needs "counseling"... though.... But do feel that a few people on this site could benefit from some.... maybe myself included...lol... Especially after reading 86 pages on this topic in 2 days....lol

same dog at around 18mo, first long bite with about 5 agitations in dog's life, new decoy new gounds. how is that mentos dog supposedly better?

decline of the GSD , fascination for fast long bites and calm grips, prey driven features but nothing more than preydrive

here is a video of a titled male (IPO) we put him on the suit , most people will love him, you should see his long bite on IPO sleeve

breedworthy, hell no, weak nerves soft dog but works well with helper he knows on field he knows in program he knows

do we see dogs like this in competition and used as stud, quite a few