The decline of the German Shepherd character - Page 68

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not sure what post yr referreing to, can you cut & paste it. my preference certainly is for a dog high in prey, i love that drive and my dog loves working in it. that is not to say that is the only drive my dog has. i don't buy into the real dog's are defensive dogs crap you can sell to newbs, i know better.

does this prey dog (mine) look not real to you, lemme guess you are going to haave a moan about him possessing the sleeve too much, equipment focus right?

IMHO, good evaluation through bitework should be revealing all sorts of character aspects. Again just my opinion, but if using bitework as an assessment tool is somehow allowing or accommodating character flaws then it's being used incorrectly.

By 'bitework' or “Protection” work I'm not just considering Trials (although I think the travel/stress/atmosphere/etc of trials helps evaluate overall character). I mean bitework in general- does the dog turn on-and-off cleanly, does he have courage, will he go after a bystander, is a child (or anyone else) safe around the dog immediately after agitation or a bite, etc,etc.

I'm also including the entire training phase of bitework, not just the end result. This is one area that people who do not participate in bitework fail miserably when trying to evaluate dogs. The path to a finished product can provide extremely revealing insight into a dogs character.

If a breeder has not been an active participant in a dogs training how much does he/she really know about the character?

susie i agree but not with ignorance .that why i dont comment on a lot of structure or show conforimation  i would only be in the way but i read alot of it and one day i will .people need to know their limits and sit back thats what i ment

@susie: not  sure why you'd think the introduction of a different/new measure impacts innate outcome, especially as schroedinger's paradox is most likely not not applicable. furthermore, you're still assuming perfectly uniform distributions over the population, whereas the focus of the discussion is actually variance over a (selectively manipulated) sub-population where, for all intends and purposes, the multivariate correlation (eigenvalue, jacobi ensable) may readily indicate significant divergence from the  (genetic) cluster reference. the relevance and underlying assumptions of distributions, and skews, to statistics, its use, and interpretational validity is quite important. re tools and theory, you may want to look up Jose Viana's work, e.g. 'Dominance, epistasis, heritabilities and expected genetic gains', genetics and molecular biology, 28: 67-74, 2005 and 'Relative importance of the epistatic components of genotypic variance in non-inbred populations', crop breeding and applied biotechnology, 4: 18-27, 2004; chapter 2, 'means & variances' in 'Quantitative genetics in maize breeding', springer science media, 2010, might help as well as it explicitly addresses the theoretical and applied aspects of additive, dominance, and epistatic (co-) variance.

VK you just answered your own question .you don't need any one else has he still got the sleeve in his mouth IM not going to reply to the language barrier your struggling now and when you tell someone your not trying to Be snarky you are . im not going to be critical of that video because the dog has to be better than that with all your talk. I could say more but i leave it at that

vk ill take my time with the words you tell your decoy to take his time coming forward your dog is in a battle with a sleeve .maybe if you turned on the lights in the second video u would be able to see how bad is it is im not letting this go any further or i will be band from posting thanks for at last answering my question u don't spend much time in clubs seeing real dog working your go through a stick off a cliff ha ha

yogi,

No one is getting banned. It takes a lot to get banned from this site unless you are a scammer/spammer then it is automatic.

Bebo, that´s too much for my English, sorry, at least I am able to understand
"not  sure why you'd think the introduction of a different/new measure impacts innate outcome" ...

No, I did not think so, I distinguished between geno- and phaenotype, and said the rules of genetics don´t change ( 3 different color patterns dominant/rezessive will result in phaenotypic different results, but genotype still follows the same rules statistically).
I have never read the books you are referring to, I´m an interested amateur "only" ( and in case they are written in English, I´m not even able to understand them).

Sub-population? Uniform distributions over the population? We are talking about 20 generations of dogs ( Hettel Uckermark) right now, and at least 17 generations NOT selected by the current breeder/poster/whatever, out of different ancestors, out of different countries for decades.

Most genes are not even responsible for one trait only, as very often you need several genes in the correct connection to get one desired trait.
As long as we don´t know what is responsible for what we can guess only, and try to select, and although we even may linebreed, it´s a selection by phenotype only.

VK- you're funny and sometimes I think you provide good info. (I'm no expert) but as a newb and the hard times you give us I wasn't impressed by the videos :). First your getting drug around like a rag doll and your leaning over your dog. Leaning over the head of your dog is bad news Bears JMO.  He also was all about the sleeve. My dog on his first session was the same, however naturally just started spitting it out and going after decoy again.  I can see why people don't post videos...however when you dish the medicine you most also be able to take it 

"however when you dish the medicine you most also be able to take it "

who's complaining, not me?

yogi feel free to pm if you a worried about being banned.