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by lucy71 on 29 December 2011 - 20:12
As for me mentioning that i have never sold a pup as 'rare',i was referring to the 2 blue pups that made a surprise appearance in a litter i bred. My blue longcoat girl is both hip and elbow scored as at one point in time it was my intention to breed from her, i decided not to.
As for breeders stating that they have clear peds, yes i can name some of them, however i would prefer to not do it on here as i know it will just result in another mud slinging session!!
I have no suggestions re who the kc should use to check peds, it was simply a comment that the ladies who currently do it are not qualified,i have made myself clear on this. It was not C Hazel who did the check for me and i made the person who did do it aware that i was not happy about the content of the report and felt that it lacked proven facts.
On a final note, the reason i quite often only read and do not comment on posts is for this very reason- i am being accused of being someone else and having multiple usernames lol, for gods sake. I suggest you surround yourself with more trustworthy characters as you seem to be very suspicious by nature, some of us are nice, honest people.
by Wildmoor on 29 December 2011 - 20:12
its okay you have at least answered one of the questions
I cant confuse you with anyone when no one knows who are are, although you did state you felt your dogs met the standard bar colour!
The only ones I am suspicious about is the coloured LC brigade, not everyone in general.
by pt1 on 30 December 2011 - 14:12
by Wildmoor on 30 December 2011 - 18:12
PT1
yes, it wouldnt be the first time - certainly not breeding for health but £££s
by Abby Normal on 30 December 2011 - 23:12
Correct me if I am wrong but I thought it had been agreed in the UK by the GSD breed council/GSDL (not KC) that an elbow score of 2 is acceptable for breeding and will be granted a British breed survey with this score, or has this now been changed ?
edited to add: Sorry, don't want to distract from the main context of this thread, which I feel is highly important, but Wildmoors statement adbout ED score of 2 confused me, and just wanted to seek clarification as this is another important health issue.
On the subject of pedigree researchers we have to go with what we have. At least somebody is providing some information to the best of their ability, and is giving that information freely.
People knew about these lines (Megan) and nobody said anything. It is happening day in day out, this silence about health issues, but I don't know how we can overcome it, I really don't.
People that 'know' often say they 'can't' say anything because it would 'upset' a breeder, and they can't say anything about a living dog. Well I think I would rather upset a breeder than allow someone to buy into the kind of heartache that some puppy owners unwittingly buy into. What's the point of knowing if you can't or won't do anything with it? It's just dead, useless information, unless it is at least passed on to researchers, or better still told to someone who may mention they are thinking of buying a puppy from that source. Especially if it is fact.
I applaud Megan's owners for continuing their campaign. Never let it rest, For Megan.
by Wildmoor on 31 December 2011 - 00:12
Not sure but the BVA state no dogs with grade 2 or 3 should be used
by GSD John on 31 December 2011 - 10:12
We agree with what you have said... On the subject of pedigree researchers we have to go with what we have. At least somebody is providing some information to the best of their ability, and is giving that information freely. Who else is willing to take on this role, which also does take up a whole lot of that persons time, but their love and passion for this breed is obvious, and the research and information is so important for the future of this Breed. People knew about these lines (Megan) and nobody said anything. It is happening day in day out, this silence about health issues, but I don't know how we can overcome it, I really don't. Neither do we, and yet we can/do openly condemn backyard breeders for not doing health tests etc. that are so important, yet how much suffering are those "reputable" breeders allowed to cause by not revealing what is in their lines. What if we had bred Megan, what then, we would have been looking at a littter of adorable puppies that would never find homes, how could we have passed on the same heartache to these Families, watching their young dog having seizures, and spending thousands of pounds for tests etc. and at the worst they could watch their dog die an early death from this horrible disease. These scenarios make me cringe and do wonder why breeders still breed with these lines. People often say, how do they sleep at night, probably a lot better than the dog owner who is forever watchful of their dog day and night. If you say you breed for yourself and to improve on the breed why would you then Knowingly use lines that have produced Epilepsy. Why indeed.
Margaret
For Megan x
by Abby Normal on 31 December 2011 - 12:12
You are right in what you say in that BYB are openly condemned, and rightly so, and I will be right there shouting as loud as I can, every single time.
However, the implication is often that it is only BYB that breed using defective lines, or who repeat a breeding knowing that a defect has been produced, and sadly we know that this isn't so. This is where very often the biggest silence lies, and where the information will rarely surface if at all, and if it does, it will be very much by accident. It seems that the breeder is more worried about their reputation than alerting others to the problem to prevent that defect spreading further.
Some years back I was talking to Chris Hazell and she told me of a breeder who had told her of a dwarf which had been produced but she would not share the details of the pedigree with her. One can only assume that was because her intention was to repeat the breeding. Not earth shattering, or life threatening in itself (except to potential dwarf puppies who would be PTS), but it was an indication of attitude IMO. Would she have done the same if an epileptic had been produced? We will never know.
The breed needs openness and honesty in all health matters (as do all breeds) to truly move forward, and there are some breeders who are genuine enough to put health above all else, who are embracing this philosophy. What is needed is for ALL breeders to feel the same way, and hopefully their numbers will grow.
Never give up. For Megan and for all the others who are being born as we speak.
by GSD John on 31 December 2011 - 19:12
Thank-you for your positive comments.
We do feel sympathy for the Breeder who gets a call from the owner to say that their dog has had a seizure, it must be so difficult listening to what they are being told about what their beloved dog has produced, some might even feel that it is a condemnation on their breeding programme, what they sadly miss is it is about our dog, the dog we love, all we wanted at that time was support and to know that they cared.
There are good Breeders who are trying their very best, but there are those that we have already seen that are not and continue to use affected lines and are not forthcoming with information, why continue to hide seizures when the Breed you confess to love will suffer, the only way is to get this out in the open, and to start getting facts put together. Surely if Breeders are going to try and eliminate this health problem it would mean that they would consciously breed to avoid it, not breed and use lines that could Produce it. I think it must be so frustrating when someone does inform you of a health issue but will not disclose anything else i.e.. the Pedigree. There seems to have always been this veil of secrecy that surrounds Epilepsy, even from the dog owners themselves, who do want to speak about their dogs but are not willing to share the Pedigree with the Researcher, sadly, most are afraid of the recriminations or any altercations that could arise. I think it is very difficult for all concerned but we are all obligated as responsible, caring people to do all we can to help this Breed.
Margaret.
For Megan and for all the others who are being born as we speak x
by charlie319 on 01 January 2012 - 17:01
The underlying problem is that for some, actually quite a few, it is a business and they see breeding these dogs as an acceptable cost of doing business, or at least of having the stud recoup his purchase price. Maybe breeders should be limited to the number of litters they can produce per year.
Some of the better (more commited) breeders I know are small "boutique" types who own one, two or three females (Usually one is already retired and all may be related), hire the sire to fit their breeding objective and breed maybe one litter per year. While campaigning their dog may be an important part of their life, it is not their livelihood.
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