color of pup??

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by VomMarischal on 30 March 2010 - 16:03

Given Hunter's coat, I guess Bella's father is a bi-color then. I always thought of him as a blanket back (Brix z Tehelne on pdb). I guess she must be a lot blacker due to her maternal grandfather's color of solid black? But then it's like she has 3 genes: Sable, b&t, and black. Of course, that would be true if black IS a masking gene, not a color gene.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/search.html?string_in=brix+z+tehelne&index_in=All&results_in=10

by Silbersee on 30 March 2010 - 16:03

Hi pod,
yes, I am familiar with Little since Malcolm Willis often references his statements to him.
As mentioned before, in Germany we never differentiated and I had never heard of a different gene for bi-color until I came to the U.S.
Please let me know when this study is published. I would love to read it.
Regards, Chris

by gagsd4 on 30 March 2010 - 17:03

Brix z Tehelne is a blk/tan, not bicolor.

Faded bi-colors do resemble sables (due to the bleed-through around head and neck esp) and are also mistaken for blanket blk/tans. But bi-colors, whether very dark or faded, have black on the underside (belly area).

I do not know if bi-colors are genetically a separate color, or if they are blk/tan with a "tag." I think the result is the same. Bi-color is recessive to sable and to blk/tan, and dominant to black.
Bi-color bred to bi-color will only produce bi's or black (not counting for whites, dilutes, or the very slim chance of a mutation).

--Mary

by VomRuiz on 30 March 2010 - 18:03

Interesting topic...
VM, Thanks for the compliment on Indi, she loves her animals lol. Not the greatest shot of her, but showed the odd color best, I thought.

Blackthorn, Hunter is a very nice looking bitch!

Stacy

by BlackthornGSD on 30 March 2010 - 18:03

Pod--thanks so much for your input. I'd love to read more about that color research when it is released.

Hunter's mom was a saddle-back black and tan who never produced a single black pup. I concluded that she was a black/tan with the bicolor recessive (although I guess that might be bt/bt with a bicolor modifier recessive....).

VomMarischal--what makes Hunter a bicolor is that she has black toemarks and tarheels and the black coming down the fronts of her legs. I don't have any great pictures of that, but you can see the tarheels in this picture:

Although very dark, Brix has neither.

And Stacy--thanks! I am looking forward to seeing how she produces this year.

Christine
blackthornkennel.com

by VomMarischal on 30 March 2010 - 18:03

gagsd4, that is what I originally thought. I guess someone in the line must have a recessive for bi-color, though.

Here's the colors for three generations:
Bella: bi color (sable and some liver siblings) with muddy toes

Mother: sable
Father: b&t

Maternal grandmother: red sable
Maternal grandfather: black

Fraternal grandmother: unknown
Fraternal Grandfather: I think he's a patterned sable (Gert Nemo)

by SitasMom on 30 March 2010 - 19:03

BAZZA YOU SOMETHING ELSE!

by hodie on 30 March 2010 - 22:03

Bazza, of course, you are quite correct here again!

It is too bad that some would be breeders/gurus have no clue about what they are talking about. Worse yet, they don't bother to open their mind rather than their mouth and try to actually learn something before they post crap. Molly, Silbersee, OSO and others had it correct. SM wasn't even in the ball park (or as you might say, on the "pitch"). Pathetic.

It is a nice little fat pup. Good luck with him OP.

by Red Sable on 30 March 2010 - 22:03

Christine, you have really nice looking dogs!

by BlackthornGSD on 31 March 2010 - 00:03

Thanks Red Sable! :)

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