crossing a mali and gsd - Page 6

Steve to answer your question, yes in Holland you can compete with a mix or non pedigree dog.
Offcourse you cannot do the WUSV cause this is for pedigree dogs.
But alot of other competitions you can enter and you get youre certificates IPO1,2 and 3 with a mix that is no problem.
And KNPV you can also do with a mix or non pedigree dog.
In Holland we got the VDH this is the german shepherd club and you can only do exams there with a pedigree german shepherd, and not with crossbreeds german shepherds without pedigree or other breeds.
Then besides that we got the NBG, i train at an NBG club, its for all breeds and mixes and dogs without pedigree and offcourse also for dogs with pedigree.

Steve1
   Your 70 that means your an Old Man. There's nothing wrong with being old we will ALL eventually end up there God willing. I am Glad though that you feel half your age I hope when I get to be your age I will feel that way. I hope you saying that you move like a 35 yr old isn't some tough guy remark? 
By the way Have you heard "To each his own"? You may NOT like what some people from EUROPE started BUT don't blame it all on the USA or the folk on the other side of the pond. Look right in your back yard first.
I guess I have to take back what I said about the 10 yr old thing. If you were intelligent enough at 10 to write an essay about line and inbreeding of racing pigeons or anything for that matter. As for this topic I really can't see a reason for you to get all Riled up it's not going to  make a differnce. People will always do what they want to do with their own animals. You know what they say Steve "you do what you do and they will do what they do" By the way I wouldn't own one of the crosses there are to many good pure bred GSD's from Reputable breeders to get a dog from. By the same token for the few that do make those crosses, Hopefully they are just for them and the few that want them.

So now we have Holland and the USA in which you can do sch competition with a mixed breed dog. Hell, Rottweilers can't go the WUSV either but they do Sch competitions. Well its nice to know that the USA is flawed like Holland when it comes to systems. Either way here is the irony, The founder of the breed always wanted his dog to be a working dog, he also cautioned against breeding for sport. Police dogs are true working dogs and if you ask Police Academies what title or system they get the highest percent of dogs that will become successful police dogs(to include German Shepherds), they will tell you KNPV titled dogs more than any other. My point is that I don't think that people cross Mali's and Shepherds to improve GS, or participate in sport....I think they do it many times to create good working dogs. And rather I LIKE that or not has nothing to do with the many many German Shepherd/Dutch Shepherd/ Malinois mixes that are currently serving mankind in the police and military!!

* "You shouldn't even be on this board if you were a GENIUS at that age." *

-- LOL

Steve,

For someone who is from Belgium and trains with the best trainers there, you sure do lack some knowlege of what goes on in your country......

Dogs in the NVBK are quite frquently cross bred. Have you heard of the NVBK or a little thing called Belgian Ring Sport?

How about a guy named Bart Bellon? He is a pretty well known guy in your parts. He is doing Sch now from what understand, so I am sure you have heard of him.

He won the Belgian Ring championships in 1992, I believe , with a dog named Flip. Flip was a Mal X GSD. So it goes on quite frequently in your country, as well as Holland, and yes they magically get papers. The NVBK ring sport people often breed to these "mutts" from Holland.

It is just just rediculous to believe that these dogs do not then get bred into the "purebred" dogs in your magical sport of IPO. I don't know what world you are living in but it is not the real world of Belgium and their dog breeding practices.

Well you Guys i have been asleep whist you lot have been trying to cut me to pieces because i do not agree with your Mutts breeding practices
So let me answer a few of you
Get a real Dog
No, i do not know this Bert Ballon, and i do not know of any Belgian Ring Club in my Province but i will make inquiries
My Sport is purely ScH Sport nothing wrong with that, I am not a Jack of all Trades i have yet to master this one to my satisfaction let alone go for another sport, Two Sports take up 15 hours of my day now so thats enough, and to get back to age Player if i did not feel Younger than i am then i would be in trouble i have been working outside for 2.5 hours this morning already and it is now 8.clock in the morning and just having a cup of tea and to see how many knives i have to get pulled out of my back, I did feel a few twinges as i was nodding off last night so a few were going in
and know my remarks were totally without malice and i certainly was not riled up when i posted them just saying in my own docile way what i think and rightfully so, if it gets to some of you Guys then it is you who are riled up not me

Gustav
Rottweilers are supposed to be a pure pedigreed breed unless of course they are crossing them as well to put into sports, they are not Mutts, a big difference would you not think
Border Collies are a registered Breed as well, i know i used to own, train and put them in Sheep Herding competitions and i won about 20 trophies doing it, they were fun to train a very adaptable dog we have one in our club training in Sch of course he cannot enter but it is great to see him on protection he does not know what breed he is a great little Dog
Babyeagle
No, i am no genius far from it, the only thing i can do is to store knowledge away and bring it out say 50 years later as if it was today. Like when we won the All England Pau Grand National and Kings Cup, i had to say something being the winner in front of the top table and Guests about 300 people
I worked out something but the Guy who went to speak before me said more or less what i was going to say it threw me and i said to the table i was sitting at i am in trouble what do i talk about, i have only three or four  minutes to think of something
Anyway i went up to the top table and Microphone, i stood there like a dummy for about 30 seconds then i said as this is the end of the millennium i am going to try and describe what this All England Pigeon Club stands for from the beginning and along the way to tell you of pigeon fanciers who have won this most prestige's race and the Year and name of the fanciers and there winning pigeon
and i start off with the Year the Club started 1898 and the race wax from Bordeaux, France and the winner was King George
a great start for the club then i relayed 20 more through the years of the year the Fancier and there pigeon finishing it off at 1980 with Jed Jackson a blind Fancier who i thought was nice as he and his wife were at the dinner he was then 82 years old and it made the old mans night, I thought i got out of trouble very well and i got an standing ovation never before or since e has that happened with dozens of people asking me how i could do that, So NO' i am no genius i can store things up i am interested in and lock them away and bring them out when i need to that is all
Finally this is to Pientie,i must remind myself never to buy a G.S dog from the Netherlands who knows i may get a Dog which has another breed put in it, passed on to me the risk is simply not worth buying to find out
Steve1

No Steve, People don't cut you apart, the truth is you often make statements and judgements you know little about or are wrong and when people correct you rather then be big enough to admit it you slide to another angle. Example....Crossbreeds aren't allowed to do Sch competitions, or you always go down that road of USA does things different, but in Belgium....... Then it is pointed out the truth about these issues and in this case they do do this in Belgium and when people point out the truth YOU say they are cutting you up. NOOOO you opened your mouth about something you knew very little about and was corrected so others wouldn't think this incorrect stuff you were spouting is the truth. As to how you feel about the crossbreed...that is YOUR opinion which everybody is entitled to but when you make statements about things other than your opinion and these statements are wrong then it makes your OPINION looked at different. Afterall, most people's opinions are based on facts in their mind...if the facts are incorrect then figure out the rest. I personally do not favour crossbreed dogs for myself personally, but when I trained dogs in the military during the War we had crossbreed dogs that saved many many people's lives. I learned RESPECT for them for what they did, so though they are not my personal cup of tea, I do not pass negative judgments on them based on experience. But then again I am talking about something I have DONE and know for fact!!

Recently the police here in sweden did cross a male malinois with a GSD bitch, the aim was to get the athletic ability and drive from the malinois with the size and stable temperament from a GSD, have as stated been done in holland before, the kennelclub here actually allowed this cross. Afterall the purebreeds is a reults of mixing different breeds also.

Gustav
Yes, you are correct everyone has right to there opinion and i have mine You are what i call a know all sort of guy
As i said before not you or any other person is a Geneticist on here, unless that is your or there job so what makes you and the others correct in Cross breeding Two very accomplished breeds of dogs, You showed your lack of knowledge in your last post by quoting Rottweilers as being used in Sch Sport, of course we all know that but they are a Reg breed dog as i said not a Bloody Cross Bred  Mutt, yet you did not catch on to that fact, I know you say you are not really for it yet you condemn me for saying anything against the practice, that is strange to say the least, and that is all i am against nothing else
All you do in your posts is to keep saying my lack of this, my lack of that but how do you know. just by reading posts You say you worked with crossbred dogs in the military no doubt you did, we also had them but i did not work with them my job was entirely different, i wished i had  but we did not have dogs or any use for them where i went to into such god for saken places, jungle warfare was not for Dogs 
However, I am not against Crossbred Dogs i have owned a couple myself, what i am against is the talk by some on here that they want to improve the German Shepherd Dog 's ability's by crossing it with a Mali, That is what i am dead against 
Until they them selves as Handlers of dogs reach the dizzy heights of being among the best in there country lets say for instance the Sport of ScH,
If they are not among the best in the USA themselves as Handlers of Dogs and who knows they may be but they use pen names on here, so let them put there real names forwards on this thread so we can all see if they are among the top handlers of dogs in the USA
IF they are not then they have a great deal to learn just like us ordinary mortals who have much to learn and achieve in the sport if that is the case WHY then do they need to cross the two breeds to try and improve points of these great dogs when they are not up to the mark as Handlers of getting the best out of the breeds as they are at present time
My last post on explaining why i am against the practice,  Let them carry on and they will be the ones to help bring down the quality of these two breeds for once it gets to a point of breeding there will be indiscriminate crosses some of which will not get recorded and eventually it will get into the above breeds and bring them down to the status of being just a Mutt, 
 It will take quite some years to take effect i will be long gone then so will never know but it will happen in the end, Indiscriminate breeding even within the ranks of the German Shepherd is bringing it down to a lower level than it was years ago, as said by many of your countrymen on here some are really scathing of the American German Shepherd Dog now, That has been done by slap happy breeding of not the best thought out genes and in many cases just because it was a German Shepherd Dog and i guess it is the same all over including here where i live, a terrible shame
However you Guys stay with your thoughts and What you think right i will stay with mine and the ethic's involved in such practices, It seems most strange that i am not a God fearing person yet i think so differently than many of you Guys who are over Dogs
Steve1 

What do you think about this dog?May he have some  mali in him? http://www.dogsk.sk/kynologia/revue/foto/gp2003/ipo3-poslusnost.jpg