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by Jon luc on 20 February 2010 - 20:02
Some body took their hobbie to Dulles Airport and a 4 year old girl paid the price. JLP
by tntk9 on 20 February 2010 - 22:02
Jon you have to be one of the stupidest people on the face of the earth and should never own or train a dog!!!!!!
by Micky D on 21 February 2010 - 16:02
>Hate to go off on a tangent, but what in the Hell was this dog, or any other dog other than a Bomb sniffer, doing at an airport?<
I was at a major train station a week or so back and there were Labradors out the wazzoo. I did see one handler with a GSD, but he was definitely in the minority. I don't know what was going on that day, if it was training, or if they had had a threat, but I felt like I was in a kennel (chuckle).
I was at a major train station a week or so back and there were Labradors out the wazzoo. I did see one handler with a GSD, but he was definitely in the minority. I don't know what was going on that day, if it was training, or if they had had a threat, but I felt like I was in a kennel (chuckle).
by HBFanatic on 21 February 2010 - 17:02
Wow.
I work with animals. You never, ever guarantee them!
You minimize the risk by evaluating a situation and making as educated of a guess as possible.
1) Why use a dual purpose dog for a public setting like this? This is not rowdy crowd control. Money? Is it too expensive to have seperate dogs for seperate purposes? Have 3 sets of dogs, patrol dogs, detection dogs and dual purpose dogs. Put them in the environment that suits them best. Make a good choice and risk will be minimalized.
2) Why a possible inexperienced handler with a young dog? Because young dogs in training and young handlers are cheaper? Green and green mixed together equals green. Again, in my opinion not a good situation. Ups the risk of mismanagement. Lets not forget, how is an green handler supposed to be at his best when something like this happens? Even experienced handlers would probably have to take one extra second. Kind of like green drivers, not saying they are bad but still working on honing their skills.
3) Who is in charge of the selection of the teams? Someone with an extensive dog/handling/training background? Or a paperpusher that has to justify expenses to the higher ups? I have seen some very poor choices made by the foks holding the purse strings. By smart folks that just simply are missing some of the knowledge needed to make good choices in some instances. Not that they don't want to. They just don't know. And many times they fall prey to brokers/trainers/sellers that are less than experienced or honest. If everyone kept in mind that the ultimate goal is to protect human life and that this is a pretty high calling and not only a paycheck, maybe that would help. It is not an ego trip but a job that requires lots of training and practical experience in my humble opinion.
This instance did not sound like a high prey drive cheap shot by a dog that got reactive due to overstimulation. I have seen tons of dog that would probably be edgy when in new sitations and may get a bit testy. Excitement and poor management. But a dog to latch on to a CHILD and also hurt others in the process, I don't think that should happen. Cheap shot, maybe forgiveable, a latch on bite like that? I don't think so. And I don't believe that this is breed related at all.
Never forget, that particular dog never asked to be there. Neither did the kid! Both are the loosers in this because somewhere along the lines, some very poor choices where made by god knows who! I personally can not feel more or less sorry for either of the two. Both deserve the best and need educated advocates that can take on this issue and see past the surface. If the handler was a newbie as well, I feel terrible for him too. Again, someone in charge should have overseen the training and made better choices.
Now having said all that, sometimes shit happens. No matter what. After all, animals are at times unpredictable. And if this was simply an accident that no one could have forseen, then so be it. I guess they do happen. Tragic either way!
I work with animals. You never, ever guarantee them!
You minimize the risk by evaluating a situation and making as educated of a guess as possible.
1) Why use a dual purpose dog for a public setting like this? This is not rowdy crowd control. Money? Is it too expensive to have seperate dogs for seperate purposes? Have 3 sets of dogs, patrol dogs, detection dogs and dual purpose dogs. Put them in the environment that suits them best. Make a good choice and risk will be minimalized.
2) Why a possible inexperienced handler with a young dog? Because young dogs in training and young handlers are cheaper? Green and green mixed together equals green. Again, in my opinion not a good situation. Ups the risk of mismanagement. Lets not forget, how is an green handler supposed to be at his best when something like this happens? Even experienced handlers would probably have to take one extra second. Kind of like green drivers, not saying they are bad but still working on honing their skills.
3) Who is in charge of the selection of the teams? Someone with an extensive dog/handling/training background? Or a paperpusher that has to justify expenses to the higher ups? I have seen some very poor choices made by the foks holding the purse strings. By smart folks that just simply are missing some of the knowledge needed to make good choices in some instances. Not that they don't want to. They just don't know. And many times they fall prey to brokers/trainers/sellers that are less than experienced or honest. If everyone kept in mind that the ultimate goal is to protect human life and that this is a pretty high calling and not only a paycheck, maybe that would help. It is not an ego trip but a job that requires lots of training and practical experience in my humble opinion.
This instance did not sound like a high prey drive cheap shot by a dog that got reactive due to overstimulation. I have seen tons of dog that would probably be edgy when in new sitations and may get a bit testy. Excitement and poor management. But a dog to latch on to a CHILD and also hurt others in the process, I don't think that should happen. Cheap shot, maybe forgiveable, a latch on bite like that? I don't think so. And I don't believe that this is breed related at all.
Never forget, that particular dog never asked to be there. Neither did the kid! Both are the loosers in this because somewhere along the lines, some very poor choices where made by god knows who! I personally can not feel more or less sorry for either of the two. Both deserve the best and need educated advocates that can take on this issue and see past the surface. If the handler was a newbie as well, I feel terrible for him too. Again, someone in charge should have overseen the training and made better choices.
Now having said all that, sometimes shit happens. No matter what. After all, animals are at times unpredictable. And if this was simply an accident that no one could have forseen, then so be it. I guess they do happen. Tragic either way!
by MaggieMae on 21 February 2010 - 17:02
DDR said --
There is a disturbing pattern of dog hanging ("lynching") and helicoptering being used by law enforcement, and the first time a trainer blows it and does it in a busy place like this, with so many people nowadays having cameras and cellphones to take video, it's going to be bad. All of this crap started when the volume dog brokers (pimps) started to crank out as many green dogs as they could. All the dogs had to do was bite, and then the broker buys them and quickly flips them on down the line. Not long and they end up with an equally green K9 officer, perhaps. Since the dogs like this are all cranked up and only know to bite, they end up being brutally hanged, every time they screw up. In reality, the dog was never given the foundation time to function in a civilian environment (time is money and no time to waste in getting these dogs sold and on the street.)
--------------------
There was a Thread several months' back where I brought this up. I had read an article written by a woman who worked in a CA Police Dept., and said she had witnessed it happening. I was called every name under the sun -- stupid, idiot, dumb, believe everything that I read on the Internet, unintelligent, can't comprehend what I read, and on and on. The lovely Posters that "attacked me" said that "hanging" / "helicoptering" doesn't happen -- or is very rare.
There is a disturbing pattern of dog hanging ("lynching") and helicoptering being used by law enforcement, and the first time a trainer blows it and does it in a busy place like this, with so many people nowadays having cameras and cellphones to take video, it's going to be bad. All of this crap started when the volume dog brokers (pimps) started to crank out as many green dogs as they could. All the dogs had to do was bite, and then the broker buys them and quickly flips them on down the line. Not long and they end up with an equally green K9 officer, perhaps. Since the dogs like this are all cranked up and only know to bite, they end up being brutally hanged, every time they screw up. In reality, the dog was never given the foundation time to function in a civilian environment (time is money and no time to waste in getting these dogs sold and on the street.)
--------------------
There was a Thread several months' back where I brought this up. I had read an article written by a woman who worked in a CA Police Dept., and said she had witnessed it happening. I was called every name under the sun -- stupid, idiot, dumb, believe everything that I read on the Internet, unintelligent, can't comprehend what I read, and on and on. The lovely Posters that "attacked me" said that "hanging" / "helicoptering" doesn't happen -- or is very rare.
by BabyEagle4U on 21 February 2010 - 20:02
* "Why use a dual purpose dog for a public setting like this? This is not rowdy crowd control." *
-- This is what I don't understand. I know Philly International uses Beagles and Hound dogs. Those dogs have always been friendly with the kids. I could understand having a differently trained dog somewhere in the back .. but to have a dog able and willing to do damage .. really shouldn't be on our airport floors in peacetime.
Again, I'm on the child's side.
If a child is afraid of dogs to begin with, putting a muzzle on a dog and walking it around an airport at what ever pace the handler decides ... its asking for more troubles. They will be screaming 2 fold when the dog just approaches.
Some people in the cities are like this with bugs and spiders I've noticed. The bigger the spider/bug the more they scream.
Silly I know, but some people are like this.
Maybe it's fear the dog handlers want to establish within these public places. Never know.
We all know the famous quote on fear via Franklin D. Roosevelt's First Inaugural Address.
-- This is what I don't understand. I know Philly International uses Beagles and Hound dogs. Those dogs have always been friendly with the kids. I could understand having a differently trained dog somewhere in the back .. but to have a dog able and willing to do damage .. really shouldn't be on our airport floors in peacetime.
Again, I'm on the child's side.
If a child is afraid of dogs to begin with, putting a muzzle on a dog and walking it around an airport at what ever pace the handler decides ... its asking for more troubles. They will be screaming 2 fold when the dog just approaches.
Some people in the cities are like this with bugs and spiders I've noticed. The bigger the spider/bug the more they scream.
Silly I know, but some people are like this.
Maybe it's fear the dog handlers want to establish within these public places. Never know.
We all know the famous quote on fear via Franklin D. Roosevelt's First Inaugural Address.
by MaggieMae on 21 February 2010 - 22:02
by Donald Deluxe on 21 February 2010 - 22:02
So let me get this straight: some of you people want single-purpose dogs to detect explosives? But not dogs that can also immediately attack and possibly subdue a suspect once explosives are found before the terrorist can detonate them?
Sorry, but I'll take my chances that the government will occasionally put a poorly-trained dog and/or incompetent handler into service with a very rare bad result like a kid getting chomped, in exchange for the added security inherent in dog/handler teams that can do the whole job.
Sorry, but I'll take my chances that the government will occasionally put a poorly-trained dog and/or incompetent handler into service with a very rare bad result like a kid getting chomped, in exchange for the added security inherent in dog/handler teams that can do the whole job.
by Donald Deluxe on 21 February 2010 - 22:02
Which, by the way, is not to excuse the fact that an inappropriate biting incident did occur, or to say that the Customs program shouldn't be reviewed to see if changes can be made to avoid this happening again. But overreacting to one incident like this is not the way to make policy.
by BabyEagle4U on 22 February 2010 - 10:02
* "So let me get this straight: some of you people want single-purpose dogs to detect explosives?
But not dogs that can also immediately attack and possibly subdue a suspect once explosives are found before the terrorist can detonate them?" *
--- Take off the tin foil hat. This is a 4 year old child who was attacked, not some terrorist patsy.
.. beholding heaven and feeling hell, huh ?
But not dogs that can also immediately attack and possibly subdue a suspect once explosives are found before the terrorist can detonate them?" *
--- Take off the tin foil hat. This is a 4 year old child who was attacked, not some terrorist patsy.
.. beholding heaven and feeling hell, huh ?
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