E collar for police dogs? - Page 6

Hans,

                     What i was trying to say was E collar is a tool used in dog training,and you have Pinch collar which is also a tool used in dog training both can be productive,or both can be abusive it all depends on who is using them.Have a nice one.

 

                       

 Jim, people  who use the training devices in expert manner like you are rare. I am sure that you are having great realtionship with your dog. I can tell that from the way you talk about your dog and training. The problem is when people are using collars as a shortcut for time, knowledge  and as a main training device. I would venture to say that you are an exception,... one in thousand people using  e collar properly.  

 
What pains me most is that these days everything needs to be done fast. What have  the trainers done before the e collar existed? Are you telling me that the dogs were trained less well?  I agree with Moon. There is no substitute for time.
McDonalds is fast and tastes OK, but in long run it will kill you. I prefere home cooked meal.....so to speak.
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com

I'm just popping in to say how much I've enjoyed/learned from the discussion in this thread, and to thank all for participating.  Not that any of you need my thanks, I'm just saying I appreciate it.

Jyl,
I agree with everything you wrote and you explained the concepts well.  I do differ a little on point 1.  I do not think the Ecollar is just for finished dogs, IMO.  It can be used on allow level to stimulate drive and create wanted behaviors, much like a light pop on a prong collar is not a correction but drive building.  The same can be done with an E collar. 

I also agree with Yoshy, the hunting dog guys have far more experience with the collars than anyone else.  I have seen some top end bird dog guys train and they know their stuff.  These guys compete for $50,000 cash prizes and the dog must point with "style" to win.  If you abuse the dog it will never work with style in any sport. 

Hans,
I agree with you 100% that there is no shortcut for proper training.  I use the tools to enhance my training not speed it up.  Training a dog is a journey, not a race for me.  My dogs set the pace and I'm in no rush in my training.  Hans, I must say I was very impressed with your dogs at your kennel and house.  They were loose and under complete control.  I actually loved it and so did my wife.  You had some awesome

I disagree with moons that prongs or Ecollars are bad tools for training.  But he and I are training for very different things.  I do not believe Moons competes with his dogs or works them in various drives as I do.  So, if his method works for his dogs great . I don't think it would work for me not to use a prong to teach my dog to do focused, high drive, energetic heeling.  When my dogs "fuss" you can poor a bottle of water over their head and they will not look away from my eyes.  I have heeled them around shotgun fire and no loss of focus.  You can pull my dogs ears and the only time he will not look away and bite you is when I say "watch me."  This focus was taught from a puppy and took a long time to develop.  But when you have a super high drive dog flat collars don't cut it in training aprong works very well.  I don't think Moons expects, wants or has any need for that much focus from his dogs.  So, different strokes for different folks.    

JMO,

Jim

Thank You Jim. Someday I would like to have half the knowledge that you do on training!!

Jyl,
Thanks! But you seem to be doing quite well.

Jim

Thanks Jim.  I really enjoy reading your posts and learn alot from them.

This has been and still is a VERY informative thread.

Yoshy
You have some very good points also.