American lines question - Page 6

I totally agree with you Crys.

The American Show Shepherd did basically begin with Lance. Before him, there were quite a few German dogs used in Am. breeding. Post Lance, there was such a heavy concentration of breeders judges/handlers that fell in line that the Am. SS has evolved into what it is today.

Of the top winning dogs, I doubt that you can find 1/100 that does not trace back to Lance in every line. I used to be that the Specialty shows were the domain of the more extreme dogs and the all breed shows were usually dominated by the more correctly structured dogs. Not so any longer. Visit an all breed show and you will see lots of hock walkers, no type, thin coats and they are winning. Just need the right handler.

Study the Am. SS. What you will see in 99% of the top dogs is a very straight upper arm, a long saggy back and a very extreme, overly angled, long rear. And this does not take into account generations of no/fake OFA, no requirements for dentition or any requirements for genetic faults or character.

JMHO,
Rik

Gustav, first off I'd like to clarify I don't think Eddie's conformation is perfect by a long stretch. He's too upright in the front end, for one thing.

I have to confess I've never seen him in person, or seen him move. The best I can do is to show you his webpage, which has pictures of him gaiting on a really tight leash  It' hard to judge just from two photos, but  I think he could use more reach in front. Of course that would require his shoulder to be less upright.

Edit: reposting link... www.timberlinekennels.com/Eddie.html

Here is a picture of a GSD from American show lines who was playing with Pharaoh last year and they are about the same age.

      

It was a very sweet dog, and Pharaoh knew he was weak and treated him very tenderly and didn't let the other dogs bully him.

He had so many health problems, I think he may have had mega esophagus.  He was on special diets and she was going crazy trying to keep weight on him.  I really don't think he will live very long......just heart breaking.

Michele

Sunsilver - I can't access the Link - can anyone access it?

The link was good - I'll repost it.

www.westminsterkennelclub.org/

Michele

Oh dear, his back legs look so awkward. 

Pharoah is beautiful .... looks very powerful.

Aww that's sad Michele!!! Pharaoh(beautiful) is so nice for protecting the other pup. Love the black GSDs.I had one.Miss him dearly.

Rik,

I thought that teeth had to be perfect in the AKC show ring.  I thought that teeth and testicles were checked on all males, and teeth on bitches.

My old GSD had Lance in his seventh generation...And several of his progeny that were top winners...Lots of champions in his pedigree, though he himself would never have placed in a showring, neither American or German.  His character was lacking, as was his conformation, though in my opinion, it beat the hell out of what's in the showrings now, or then.  He had the scissors bite, and both testicles, though at five years old, he had never shown any interest in females at all...I had him neutered after he mounted a human woman!  Totally embarrassing with a perfect stranger!

Not a great specimen of his breed, though I loved him.  Never, ever would have bred him.

As for the showdogs of US being linebred, inbred, on Lance, I noticed that.  He wasn't the worst looking GSD in the world, but he should never have been the whole foundation of a breed in this country.  Such is what has led to what passes for a GSD here..I'd take a German GSD any day...

Funny I should say that because I adopted Annie Oakley, a blind dog whose ancestry is largely unknown, except for her father, who was AKC and a BYB pup himself...I never wanted another American Shepherd, but here I am, head over heels in love with a very special one!

Just my opinions...Too bad we can't go back in history and eliminate Lance from the breed, before he can be bred...Nice enough dog, but he should never have been bred as much as he was.

Crys