ASTANA STATEMENT - Page 6

Pedigree Database

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by Charisma on 08 September 2008 - 12:09

To all parties sorry for your loss, this was a beautiful dog....

NO reason to think that this problem could be carried forward puppies have mothers as well, good luck to all who own his pups.

 


pagan

by pagan on 08 September 2008 - 12:09

It takes two to Tango ! I agree with you f.w why does the male always get the blame


by Penny on 08 September 2008 - 15:09

I have a young Alfons daughter - which is why I have  an interest in knowing the exact cause of death. I have asked Julie and Tom since Ansgars posting on here.... they have no idea and have received no autopsy report.  I will pm Ansgar and hope to see an autopsy report.  Alfons was one of my favourite top males, and its a sad loss, but as previous threads have said - there should be no secrecy.  God forbid that I lose a dog at a young age, but if it was a dog of such worth, and people were genuinely asking the cause - I wouldnt confine my information to people that had used the dog ! 

Mo - Mascani.


by Louise M. Penery on 08 September 2008 - 15:09

True--dogs do have 2 parents.

Alfons was a half-brother to the recently deceased dog Gigolo Elzmündungsraum (in Australia). Coincidentally, Gigolo was a half-brother to another young dog Digger vom Elzmündungsraum out of the same dam, Xantia Elzmündungsraum, when bred to Zamp Thermodos.

Even worse may be the fact that Alfons was 11 times linebred Odin Tannenmeise!!


Dawn G. Bonome

by Dawn G. Bonome on 09 September 2008 - 11:09

JMO, but I do think that people that have offspring,  and Breeders that have used this beautiful guy have the right to know what the cause of death was. If the Breeder of this poor guy knew that there could be problems, and bred with lines that were suspect, and bred anyway, then shame on the Breeder!  What good is it. if you go on beauty, and forget about health and longevity? How in the world does this help the breed? My condolences to the owners!

 


Dawn G. Bonome

by Dawn G. Bonome on 09 September 2008 - 12:09

I forgot to add that  I have also heard that the Scott lines have problems. (Heart). I will not look at a dog that has these  lines! When I see Scott in the pedigree, I say forget it! My condolences to the people who owned him in England.

 


by Louise M. Penery on 09 September 2008 - 16:09

As was suggested earlier, both the sire and the dam bring both their deficits and attributes to the breeding table.

One must look for common elements on both sides of a pedigree when assessing probable causes of early death. We know of several Wallace sons (Gigolo Elzmündungsraum, VA-1 Hooper Rohberg, and VA Alf Wilhendorf) that died young.

However, what of the recently deceased young Irish Sieger, Ken Elzmündungsraum? The common thread of Ken, Gigolo, and Alfons appears to be that their maternal grand dam is is Quelle Elzmündungsraum--also the grand dam of the still living and producing Digger Elzmündungsraum (through Xantia Elzmündungsraum).

Unfortunately, often, we may only be able to analyze which bloodlines should not be combined from the aspect of hindsight.

However, why would one want to consider using a dog at stud (such as Alfons) who is linebred on a single dog (Odin Tannenmeise) eleven times?

 

 


by Louise M. Penery on 10 September 2008 - 18:09

Perhaps, when considering any breeding, people should consider doing "co-efficients of inbreeding" of both parents and the of pedigree of the proposed litter.


neohaus

by neohaus on 12 September 2008 - 00:09

Has anyone asked about the heart problems in Scott and Wallace progeny? I also have a dog with a heart probelm diagnosed at age 14 months and I tell you...it is the worst thing to hear about your dog. She is now 6 and on her last legs.... yes she is beautiful with drives to die for but as ill as they come!!!

 

I think health should be more important than anything....and I see that most keep the ill ones going and push the healthy ones aside....due to silly things like not  having enough color or a dull coat...believe me when I say that these are NOTHING compared to an unhealthy dog!!!

 

I am sorry to hear about Alfons. I will be at that point with my own dog soon....and it really stinks!!!


by Preston on 12 September 2008 - 00:09

neohaus, are you referring to aortic arch stenosis, cardiomyopathy, or cardiac conductance irregularities?






 


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