The decline of the German Shepherd character - Page 54

Thank you, Black MLinois. I saw that most recent video of him, and he has matured a lot from when he made his PH-l. Pretty good accmlishment for a gsd, isn't it?

As the original poster I wanted to pursue the question of the decline in the Character of the GSD. The response to the thread is varied in opinion on the subject. Some are of the opinion that character means aggression and, indeed, this has been emphasised by posting videos.

My own idea of character is based on the following

Genetics - any trait or function resulting from the effect of one or more genes as modified by the breeder and environment. The sum of these that form the individual nature of each dog, Character defines who and what the dog is. The dog must have integrity in having a steadfast adherance to a strict code, being unimpaired, sound and complete. The integrity can also be described as doing the right thing at the right time even when off duty. There is one further ability that the dog must have and that is it must be willing in a wide range of disciplines to maintain the GSD as the best utility dog in the world.

All puppies are born with fundamental abilities but what happens when they go to their new homes in terms of character as development becomes man made. Not everyone will have the ability to recognise the full value of their dogs especially when the animal is their first dog. That takes experience.

The question that needs to be asked is "are the inherited traits, for which the breed gained it's reputation, still in the newborn puppies, or, is the character appearing to be in decline because of the man made development changing the characters in a negative way?"

The videos that we have seen here prove absolutely nothing about the overall character of the GSD other than to go off topic. The videos only show the development of one particular aspect of character and that is largely man made.

I don't think the question has been answered.

Mackenzie

'All puppies are born with fundamental abilities ...'. Are you sure of this. If that's the case, why the need for this thred? Do you mean 'fundamental ability' to see, or hear or walk or swallow, etc.? Because All puppies are not born with those fundamental abilities. Or are you talking about fundamental abilities to guard, to become a seeing eye dog, to become a search and rescue dog, a law enforcement dog, a herding dog, an apprehension dog, a pet, etc? Because if that's what you mean, thats not true either and if it was, why this thred?
Dogs are born with character, it is not man made...if it was, why post this thred?

The development of the GSD cannot happen when you have too many opinions of what the breed should be. As you have seen from this thread, you have people who want "pretty", those who want show dogs, others who want sport dogs and very few who actually want a GSD, a WORK dog.

The abilities you speak of will be part of the dog upon birth, but, they will be tailored to what the breeder wants out of those dogs, looks, insane drives that will propel the dog to the podium in the sport world, etc, but, that is not the true character of the breed. I said it before, you are chasing an elusive reality, a boat that sailed long a go and its not coming back because until every fancier of this breed reads from the same page, the GSD is done, never to be bred as ONE singular WORKING dog.

 

Joanro - of course all dogs are born with character but what is the quality of that trait.  Is it good, bad, indifferent, independent. What do you think?  

No dog is born sch H 3,  IPO 3 as you well know, or should do, they are man made influences.

Mackenzie

gsd is a working dog genetics should provide what is necessary to achieve what you want whether protection search and rescue what ever you need . As long as it is brought up right in the field  you desire lazy people who don't research their line don't put in the effort to make sure it the line they want .And we the get the pup do nothing to increase what is their genetically . don't be lazy and you will get out what you put in .

Ibrahim: 

 

Prager,

 

Can you please explain this for me

Fight drive, is it  expressed in prey or defense mode. or both?

Meaning, if a dog in breed report is described to have a pronounced fight drive, that means he has good defense drive, good prey drive, balanced drives, or it has nothing to do with prey and defense drives?

There are many definitions of fight drive.  I subscribe to a this one: Fight drive is a compnenet of attack in prey or defense . It is  drive - ablity of a dog to bring a fight to the adversary over distance and psycholigical adversity. Be it a prey( hunting) or enemy(protecting/attacking) .  

  The prey and defense have many components. Fight drive is one such component. other may be anger ( in defense) energy spend in unit of time, decisivness, thrasholds and so on. 

 

In prey it could be followed by example the dog able to fight rabbit but not wild boar. That in my book, is determined by fight drive. 

In NP ( natural protectiveness) /defense. Some dog will attack only non threatening opponents who give up   but will not attack a man who will hit him repeatedly and painfully with a  rebar. That is determined by the dogs fight drive. This drive is largely inherited. That is why we call it drive. There are other components determine ability to bring the fight to the enemy which may or may not be inherited and which may be trained to cover lesser fight drive. One of such traits coming to my mind is courage. Courage can be inherited or learned.

 Additional difference between courage and fight drive is that the dog with high fight drive tends to take things personally, and usually dispense the high amount of energy per time unit where dog with high inherited courage will display it it gradually.  

As far as topic of this thread goes. Todays cultures tend not too pay attention to breeding dogs with high fight drive especially NP.ansd with supreme fight drive in prey. That is upsetting a balance of temperament which  GSD should poses. 

 Prager Hans

Don't forget the fear drive e.g. I will get you before you get me.

Mackenzie

Thus fight drive in defense is fluidly connected with courage and energy dispensing and anger  and training and other life experience. But in the end if we talk strictly about fight drive then I go by the definition above ( green italics) 

Prager Hans