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by Videx on 18 February 2009 - 14:02
I have received requests to leave the BALLOT in place for Crufts, and GSD Club AGM's and up to the next GSD Breed Council meeting.
Because this BALLOT is an opportunity for this influential group to publicly express their viewpoint on this very important issue, and for this I thank everyone who participates in this ballot. I believe there is value in leaving the BALLOT open.
Further consideration about ENDING THE OPPORTUNITY TO VOTE in this BALLOT, can be considered during March 2009.
Because this BALLOT is an opportunity for this influential group to publicly express their viewpoint on this very important issue, and for this I thank everyone who participates in this ballot. I believe there is value in leaving the BALLOT open.
Further consideration about ENDING THE OPPORTUNITY TO VOTE in this BALLOT, can be considered during March 2009.
by CAROL on 18 February 2009 - 14:02
Maybe a 'paper petition form' on the breed council stand at Crufts for the many people without internet access??
by missbeeb on 18 February 2009 - 15:02
Sue, any chance of a ballot form being sent out with the next BC magazine?
by Jeevs on 18 February 2009 - 18:02
Sueb
Yes I did like the Crufts 08 BOB winner and posted many replies on other groups defending him and the judge, but I have to say in all honesty it was a difficult task, given the pictures of him moving and standing at Crufts. My line of defence was mainly that he would have looked a different dog had they seen him on grass with a suitable handler, which actually contradicts my real feelings which is that a dog should be able to move on that surface and anyone (almost!) should be able to handle them.
I feel a lot of the blame lies with the training clubs, who it seems cannot train a novice dog and handler to do the job, instead insisting on them having handlers and teaching them how to double handle. From another group I know of one 'newby' owner who has entered shows then not gone, because they have not got a handler. That is one thing I feel the Alsatianists have got right.
Yes I did like the Crufts 08 BOB winner and posted many replies on other groups defending him and the judge, but I have to say in all honesty it was a difficult task, given the pictures of him moving and standing at Crufts. My line of defence was mainly that he would have looked a different dog had they seen him on grass with a suitable handler, which actually contradicts my real feelings which is that a dog should be able to move on that surface and anyone (almost!) should be able to handle them.
I feel a lot of the blame lies with the training clubs, who it seems cannot train a novice dog and handler to do the job, instead insisting on them having handlers and teaching them how to double handle. From another group I know of one 'newby' owner who has entered shows then not gone, because they have not got a handler. That is one thing I feel the Alsatianists have got right.
by Sue B on 18 February 2009 - 19:02
Carol
A 'paper petition form' to sign at Crufts is a brilliant idea. Perhaps someone going to Crufts could organise a few copies of a suitable Petition form to take with them to Crufts and ask if it can be placed on one of the Breed rings stalls.
Preferably the BC Stall is where it should be placed but please understand the decision whether it would be allowed on the BC stall or not isnt mine to make.
Jeevs,
The handler of the 08 BOB winner is not a novice. The ring provided at Crufts is far too small for a dog with powerful hind drive and far reaching gait to best show his movement to its full potential. The fact that the Alsatianists have got the handling situation right is NO reason to keep that type under the same umbrella as the GSD. In that respect it is a situation that needs addressing within our own camp for until we do, it is something that will continue to cause concern for many whether the breed seperates or not.
For e.g the people currently belonging to what we term The Middle of the Road , if the split was to come about the majority of these would I believe most likely choose the German Shepherd type. They of course would still exhibit under the same named judges as they have always exhibited under. Consider this Jeevs as breeder of Ch.Kassieger Zar it could be argued that I myself breed middle of the road, whereas I dissagree because he is the continuation of my all German breeding with a German Import as a sire and his dam the daughter of a Champion made up on the German side of exhibition. I have exhibited my German Import female under judges considered as Middle of the Road and taken the Res CC. So we are not a million miles away from the type we prefer, we are actually very much alike.
Regards
Sue b
A 'paper petition form' to sign at Crufts is a brilliant idea. Perhaps someone going to Crufts could organise a few copies of a suitable Petition form to take with them to Crufts and ask if it can be placed on one of the Breed rings stalls.
Preferably the BC Stall is where it should be placed but please understand the decision whether it would be allowed on the BC stall or not isnt mine to make.
Jeevs,
The handler of the 08 BOB winner is not a novice. The ring provided at Crufts is far too small for a dog with powerful hind drive and far reaching gait to best show his movement to its full potential. The fact that the Alsatianists have got the handling situation right is NO reason to keep that type under the same umbrella as the GSD. In that respect it is a situation that needs addressing within our own camp for until we do, it is something that will continue to cause concern for many whether the breed seperates or not.
For e.g the people currently belonging to what we term The Middle of the Road , if the split was to come about the majority of these would I believe most likely choose the German Shepherd type. They of course would still exhibit under the same named judges as they have always exhibited under. Consider this Jeevs as breeder of Ch.Kassieger Zar it could be argued that I myself breed middle of the road, whereas I dissagree because he is the continuation of my all German breeding with a German Import as a sire and his dam the daughter of a Champion made up on the German side of exhibition. I have exhibited my German Import female under judges considered as Middle of the Road and taken the Res CC. So we are not a million miles away from the type we prefer, we are actually very much alike.
Regards
Sue b
by Sue B on 18 February 2009 - 20:02
THOUGHT IT MIGHT BE RELEVENT TO COPY THIS POST WRITTEN UNDER A DIFFERENT THREAD INTO THIS ONE
Hiya Paulie et all
I believe the very fact that the KC have kept the word Alsatian attached to the Registered name of our German Shepherd name could be conceived as them actually admitting they consider our breed as being two seperate breeds in one!! Otherwise why havent they already reduced it to it's singular UNIVERSAL name of German Shepherd? I also believe that by giving credance to this ficticious Breed of Alsatian for so long the Kennel Club have set a President and therefore a very plausible argument IN LAW for the seperation of the breed - i.e German Shepherd and Alsatian (UK Shepherd).
At the very least if the vote for the seperation of the breed is not successful at Breed Club Level or is denied by the KC then surely the KC would then have no alternative but to remove the word Alsatian from the German Shepherd Breed Name for as I have already stated, THERE IS NO SUCH BREED AS ALSATIAN THAT EXISTS ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD, So either the KC have to accept that the UK have created another seperate Breed or remove the ficticious breed name from that World Established and Acknowledge breed of German Shepherd.
And on that I rest my case! lol
Regards
Sue B
Hiya Paulie et all
I believe the very fact that the KC have kept the word Alsatian attached to the Registered name of our German Shepherd name could be conceived as them actually admitting they consider our breed as being two seperate breeds in one!! Otherwise why havent they already reduced it to it's singular UNIVERSAL name of German Shepherd? I also believe that by giving credance to this ficticious Breed of Alsatian for so long the Kennel Club have set a President and therefore a very plausible argument IN LAW for the seperation of the breed - i.e German Shepherd and Alsatian (UK Shepherd).
At the very least if the vote for the seperation of the breed is not successful at Breed Club Level or is denied by the KC then surely the KC would then have no alternative but to remove the word Alsatian from the German Shepherd Breed Name for as I have already stated, THERE IS NO SUCH BREED AS ALSATIAN THAT EXISTS ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD, So either the KC have to accept that the UK have created another seperate Breed or remove the ficticious breed name from that World Established and Acknowledge breed of German Shepherd.
And on that I rest my case! lol
Regards
Sue B
by patrick on 18 February 2009 - 22:02
Sue, The fight for the split in the breed is dead in the water! The vote is 64 for, as today. compare that against the number of Affixes registered, the gap is to wide. I agree with you that we stand more of a chance starting with the name Alsatian being removed and later getting the wusv standard accepted as the correct breed standard in the u.k. Dave Payne also feels thats a more realistic objective to start with. Whatever happens, unity is the key word. Slowly, Slowly, catch the monkey!! Remember, Half a loaf is better than nothing. Bill Owen.
by missbeeb on 18 February 2009 - 22:02
Give it more time, Bill. I know there are some very conspicuous absentees... they could be on holiday, or not know anything about the petition and some don't have access.
How many active exhibitors, with an affix are there? Roughly?
by pencil on 18 February 2009 - 23:02
I have noticed that the BIG 4 kennels have not signed the petition.
by Videx on 19 February 2009 - 01:02
Clarification: I feel very strongly about separating the GSD & Alsatian into two breeds here in the UK. I also feel that if we do NOT succeed, for whatever reason, we should push very hard to have the name (Alsatian) removed. Then we should push very hard to have the FCI/SV/WUSV GSD BREED STANDARD accepted by the Kennel Club.
On another note: Perhaps some Affix holders are waiting until after CRUFTS to vote in the ballot.
On another note: Perhaps some Affix holders are waiting until after CRUFTS to vote in the ballot.
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