The decline of the German Shepherd character - Page 50

Haz, there is a difference between training a dog to do something or natural behaviour, with natural balanced dog there is no doubt in my mind he will perform time and time again, with trained behaviour we always have to hope the dog will recognize situation as trained and therefore has room for error

Im not arguing knowledge of people who like and train these dogs, I have clients myself who buy these type of dogs and work with them succesfully, so each to his own, I have personal preference to what type of dog I would feel safe with and its not these type of preyboys

 

and yes VK an olympic gold medal winner marksman is lost if you send him into war with any gun

nice post Duke

"and yes VK an olympic gold medal winner marksman is lost if you send him into war with any gun"

 

you are missing the point, he is clearly lost without training, but can you aotumatically say he won't perform with the correct training, clearly you can not.

 

that is my point.

 

it is not fair to say a dog only ever trained to do X is a failure cos it can not do Y.

 

it is a logical fallacy and plain BS.

 

it is not about training VK but about what is naturally there, many IPO sport trained dogs have good natural balance and will perform out of program, but than again many wont, now if you start to train policedogs in prey only as if it was a program you will end up with situations with the whitehouse fence jumper, a guy in his underwear runs the dog of the field, damned we forgot to train on people in their underwear

you want to send your father or husband or son into the night with that dog

no but i am not an IPO basher, it is the best system we have for producing working genetics on average on a world scale.

Training wiil offten let you down genetics wont a real fight and training in a he will never let u down iv had pray dog and iv seen it in other dogs not god in the long term alot of prey dog work that way because it masked the hidden problems VK how offften do you visit dog clubs fo real WL.the only way  working your dog in different grounds different decoys .the only way to see what your dog is made of i dont have a lot of book say but i work with alot off good lads all over the country and they have passed on what im saying. fight over pray will always win

"Its the best system you have for producing SPORT genetics".

Duke I was just referring to the idea people have that dogs that are prey crazy are no good for real work. You hear them repeat all the time if there is no sleeve he wont bite and other stupid crap. If the dog has good nerves and character to go with the prey he can bite civil or equipment no problem.

Thats all I am trying to say.

I prefer more of a naturally serious dominant dog personally too. I find.most of the prey craziy dogs a bit annoying sometimes, but does not mean they cannot work.

I train right now with a GSD who is a screamer, he never shuts up, all prey all the time. He was until now all IPO training. Very fast, very confident but not to much fight unless you really push him because he does not care. Recently the handler started training him in civil work. Did not take him long to start biting civil. This dog could do police work in most deparments.

I personally dont want to own him..lol..but he can work.

I personally like dogs like Rinus' old dog Gucci vom Esbleckhof. Very serious / dominant and maybe a bit dangerous but they bring that to their work.

the best dogs I buy are IPO rejects that are sold because the dont want to play, or because they dont have full grip for points, IPO is long time past it being the best test for policedogs and even more so on modern training ways, already starting way back with using the whip, hell, no criminal will whipp up your dog before engaging, and todays breeding that is most sport oriented produces a lot of happy high drive dogs, most of them make great detection dogs however

Duke without IPO we would not have the pool of dogs to draw from. the floodgates would be open to every cowboy back yard PPD trainer / snake oil salesman, now a minority of ethical people would be different but on whole i have to support IPO.

 

why am i defending ipo, i hate the sport and everyone i have met in person that does it sux, my dog is even banned from the clubs, too aggressive....go figure