Let's Talk About Alternatives Here... - Page 5

That site - dogfoodanalysis - is the opinion of one person with no chance for people to add their own ratings or comments or feeding experiences. The foods are rated on theoretical values and not practical application, nothing is based on (f)actual feeding experience. That site criticizes certain ingredients without considering what type of that ingredient is used in a particular food. Take beet pulp for example, which is one reason for the lower marks of the Eagle food on that site. Yet it is not even critizised in other foods that are rated higher. The site claims that they do not "prefer" beet pulp as an ingredient because of conflicting accounts of the benefits of this ingredient. They acknowledge that not all grain is equal but leave out that all beet pulp may not be equal either. Eagle uses a type of beet pulp that has virtually all sugar removed and explains the benefits of that type of fibre and why it is being used. Same as corn, not all use of corn is bad, or that of grains period. Dogs will eat fresh corn right off the cob when given the chance, or nibble on baby grains when it is still soft enough for them to eat off the plant. Never mind stealing mouthfuls of sweetfeed or any other horse feed right out of the feeding bucket at the horse barn any chance they get. Or feast of horse apples and cow paddies, which contain these grains in predigested, but not fully digested forms. Compare that to beef, also a well known allergen for dogs, but acceptable as the first two ingredients in 6star rated Evo RM. At best the site is very biased. We do not know if diets like Evo are really that good, not enough long term studies. When getting feedback from the feedstores though, there are a lot of problems reported back particularly with Evo, and that most people have better results after switching to Orijen. These people sit at the source and talk to their customers. According to that feedback the Evo/Orijen foods seem to work really well in cats, who do much better on a more meat based / higher protein diets. The dogs do not always do so well on it. Same goes for feedback I got from vets. I briefly tried the Orijen, but do not feel that it is safe enough to feed continuously or long term yet. Makes great meaty snacks though, better than wheat based biscuits, for my own personal preference anyways. Yes, the ingredient list in these two or other top rated foods in that site may look great at first glance, but there is more to dog food. That site also does not address important aspects such as proper omega fatty acid ratios. Does not matter so much that a food just contains them, they have to be in the right ratio. Not enough fibre is also an issue. Too little or too much fat another. Too much organ meats is not a good thing to feed on a consistent basis either, also not being addressed. It affects the Calcium : Phosphorus ratio for example, which is also not address in that site. Again look at the Evo and their ratio compared to what is considered ideal for dogs, way off the scale. Etc. There are a lot more factors that play a role in rating and considering a food. Never mind that certain breeds have certain requirements, and a food that would rate 6 star for a Papillon will probably not rate 6 star for a GSD. Beware of what you read online. Just because someone has put it there does not mean much. Log-in is not possible, says new users not allowed. As I said, one man show. But you can use the search option the site has as is. The site is informative in that it lists a lot of different foods out there, but everything else, consider with a grain of salt. Because I am not sure why a site owner in France would put so much effort into US based pet foods, and why the site owner has such a need to remain anonymous (which is not in accordance with EU laws) - and why people here put so much trust and follow such an anonymous source so blindly...

This site is a tool to help us make a better decision about what to feed our dogs.

I used Innova foods in the late nineties. The main problem I had was coat condition, which declined in my test subjects over a 6 month period to the extent that I stopped using the products. Hopefully the EVO will be better. I agree completely with DH that the lack of information on calcium/phosphorus ratio is a major concern! Mess up that ratio in a GSD, especially in pups, and you realize problems you never wanted to know about! (read: entire litters, one-way trips to the vet!) IMO, the whole issue of what to feed dogs is something of a crap-shoot. Not nearly enough scientific research has been done by trustworthy and independent/university facilities, and that done by the manufacturer's themselves is inherently untrustworthy, seriously biased. Also, IMO we have been breeding domesticated canids for so long that we must have altered the digestive systems of our dogs. Therefore, the insistance that "raw" diets are well-tolerated and sufficiently balanced to meet the needs of today's dogs does not wash, at least in my book. Worse yet (IMO) is the option of creating and preparing home made diets, exclusive of ANY scientific foundation, without benefit of laboratory analysis, lacking any attention to/form of acceptable, credentialed nutritional research. I have yet to note a breeder having long-term success while feeding a hap-hazard, seat-of-the-pants diet, made up as a process of guess work. My dogs and the long-term effects of their diets are far too important to me, a layman, to risk feeding something I threw together myself. SS

D.H. as soon as this started I switched to Egale pack, Holistic Brand. I am thinking also the 3 star is also due to> 1st has Brown rice, then list white rice. I also asked them about where it was made and who package, Only the Hoistic line is All done by them. The canned is done by Menu foods. I can tell you in the short amount of time my dogs are on it, they look better than before, The GSD's coat is getting glossier slowly, the Rottie was within a few days, He now looks like an oil slick. I have stoped all other additives and vitimans, wanting to see what the FOOD is doing, before putting back on additives. They are weaned off solid gold now to. I never liked it when only using it by itself so I gave 1/2 and 1/2. They are now only on Eagle pack, Holistic Select, unitl I can decide what to do from here. Anyone find canned food NOT made by Menu Foods? Are we all paying different for the band name, Yet all the same????

Shelly, You hit the nail on the head. I feel totally inept, other than no wheat, no corn, From there I have no clue. "My dogs and the long-term effects of their diets are far too important to me, a layman, to risk feeding something I threw together myself."

Instead of mixing raw with kibble you may want to consider feeding two meals: one raw, one kibble. The rate of digestion is different for raw and kibble. Mixing them may result in loose stools and gas, and with our breed we don't really want to do anything which encourages gulping, swallowing of air, or production of gas.

The digestive tract of dogs is much shorter than ours. Salmonella bacteria have to colonize the gut in sufficient numbers to produce the toxin which makes us sick. In dogs, they're normally eliminated before they've had the time to grow into infectious colonies. Ditto for e.coli. This is not to say a dog can't get 'food poisoning' but he'd have to ingest a huge amount and the chances of that happening with raw eggs is pretty slim. Additionally, a dog's gut is far more acidic than ours which makes it harder for bugs to survive. Wish that were true for parasites .. . One of mine caught yet another rabbit last night and scarfed it up. Talk about raw feeding! That means Droncit therapy in six weeks to get rid of the tape he surely has growing in him now. Never a dull moment, eh?

There's lots of info both ways, but one thing I disagree with is that we've domesticated them for so long their GI tracts have changed. They haven't, and "dog food" has really only been popular for 50-60 years or so, and back then it was mostly horse meat. NOt the Grain based stuff most of it is today. So while the GI contents may have changed in individual dogs, the overall workings of it have not.

I know people with other breeds that really like the Eagle Pack too. It seems to be a good food for most breeds. As far as cooking for dogs, there has been plenty of research done by vets like Pitcarin to formulate nutritionally sound recipes. Some on this board have been feeding homecooking to their own dogs for several generations with great results. I would never advocate just mixing up this and that will nilly, but if you want to make you own dog food, there are plenty of recipes to follow that have been compounded by knowledable dog people. The biggest discrepency I see is whether to use or to not use grains. Pitcarin uses them, prefers rolled oats and rice purchased in bulk from a health food store. Raw feeders will not use grains. Most commercial foods contain grains, some do not. Toss a coin...........

I don't understand why so many people are "scared" to feed raw. Do you worry so much about your own nutrition? Every meal will not be balanced. Heck us humans go days without a "real" meal, yet we are affraid we will kill our dogs by feeding them. It just boggles the mind. We also have people worrying more about their dogs teeth than their children. Is there not something wrong with this? The teeth will fall out eventually. You don't have to feed a perfectly balanced meal every day. Chicken one week, buffalo the next, beef, after that. Whatever, you get the idea. Raw is better than processed food anyday. I'm not affraid to feed raw, I have and still do when I have the time and room for the extra food. I run a daycare and I have 2 refers at home, but I don't always have room for 20lbs of raw meat a week for my dogs. Do I get worried if they didn't get their yougurt for a few days or I ran out of cottage cheese? No, they wait until I go the store the next time. They are not going to die people! Relax, raw isn't as hard as you make it out to be.