The "Judges Committment Declaration for Conformation Judges BSZS" - Page 5

Mac, it's not that bad😉

Gustav - The main problem is that changes can sometimes be quite insidious and barely noticeable. For the Newbies they will not realise the changes that have taken place which are man made. They see dogs getting top honours and they take these dogs as being correct without realising that they have departed so far from the breed standard. When some people, who have been in the breed for many years, see changes but because they see them take place very slowly they arrive at the same point as the Newbies. The changes become the norm.

The result of the changes is that Hermann Martin reduced the gene pool down to two males, Zamb v d Wienerau and Jeck v Noricum. Both of these males were by Odin v Tannenmeise who is a son of Quando v Arminius and all of these brought problems to the breed in this combination. Inbreeding in this way made changes appear much quicker than they would by normal and natural evolution. The anatomy has changed to undesirable levels.

In the case of Herr Messler I initially thought the he was very brave to change the rules for the Sieger Show. A show of strength that petered out very quickly by not having the courage to see it through and impose the penalties he set out. What will his legacy be for the breed? He is weakened by the fact that he was not a Judge. My personal opinion is that I do not think he will be the President for much longer. Who can follow him and be able to guide the breed forward? I hope that someone can suggest a name who in their opinion will come forward for the benefit of the breed. The SV is in need of sweeping changes over a long period of time which will take many years to accomplish, such is the damage to overcome.

I have not even touched on corruption which is well documented elsewhere and needs no further comment from me.

I am sorry Gustav but I cannot agree with the comment in your last post. I also think that anyone who agrees with that is either in a comfort zone, or, prefers to ignore the fact.

Mackenzie

Mac, you are preaching to the choir! I have long lamented these same things as I lived the ASL breeders do this 40-50 years ago, and then saw Germany go down the same road. You will not change many of those that are a part of the movement or benefit financially....but as time moves on their faction will lose more and more supporters as the breed they represent loses more and more of German Shepherd traits.
So just sit back, there are still remnants of folks who strive for keeping the breed the versatile utility dog it was created to be.

Gustav - It is a pity that this PDB no longer has the wide readership from different countries as it used to have. The apathy throughout the breed worldwide is set out in your post.

Like me you have lamented the decline of the breed for many years. The decline began in earnest with Hermann Martin and the people around him. You made two very important points in your last post when you said “You will not change many of those that are a part of the movement or benefit financially” and the response to this is we do not want them to change we want to get rid of them completely. You continued with “but as time moves on their faction will lose more and more supporters as the breed they represent loses more and more of German Shepherd traits” and, by the time that happens the traits that we treasure will be lost forever.

How can you say to me, or, anyone else in your post “So just sit back“. I do not and will not accept or surrender as you suggest. Never ever! You went on to say “ there are still remnants of folks who strive for keeping the breed the versatile utility dog it was created to be”. Those remnants who are still active cannot be abandoned until they themselves are extinct. These are the people who should not be just speaking out but shouting as loud as the can on this Forum and any other Forum they can find wherever they are in the world and we should support them. 

Mackenzie

I understand your passion👏

To return to the theme of this thread and in particular to Herr Heinrich Messler’s letter dated 10th August 2016 wherein he set out the Terms of Commitment for the Judges at the Sieger Show. My understanding is that all Judges had to agree to and sign the Terms Contract.

Can anyone tell me whether a) All Judges Signed b) Some of the Judges signed c) None of the Judges signed the Contract. If a Judge(s) did not sign up and placed dogs in breach of the rules contained in the letter then it would make it difficult for the SV to bring a charge(s) against those who just ignored the rules and did their own thing. Perhaps the answer to this question will explain the reason why nothing seems to have been done.

Mackenzie

I think the only way there will be change is if people actually start reporting judges and making official complaints.

Bavarian Wagon - if you saw it would you report it?

Mackenzie

I made a report about a judging issue at a trial. They don’t do much, they use it as “educational material” and give the judge a talking to. I think as a competitor it comes across as poor sportsmanship and there is always a fear of retaliation at a future trial/show. If the organization was bigger and it was easy to hide/avoid people then it would make things easier, but as it stands (especially in the United States) it’s rarely a question of who is reporting who and then a competitor is always going to have to avoid a judge or maybe a group of judges because you know that people will punish you for making their life a little more difficult.

The way everything is set up, you can’t really say much during the show/trial because you’ll get poor sportsmanship. If you do it after, I don’t think anyone will actually change any outcomes even if video is available and there are glaring issues with the way judging was done.

I think that the best way is not to give the judge an entry. A fall in income soon registers better than reporting anyone. The reason for a significant fall in entries for particular judges will soon become apparent.

Mackenzie