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by hntrjmpr434 on 18 January 2016 - 00:01
Guy walking with guitar case
Being touched at vet
by Mithuna on 18 January 2016 - 00:01
yes they are simple ,but it does NOT reasonably explain why those( simple ) things would cause fear and not a wrangling power saw or the noise double power vaccum on her body. When I stand under the subway the vibration is so great I feel like the train call fall off the track; the dog is not bothered by this. You did not answer the question. When I look at it the only different variable is the presence of a person wanting to overtly interact with or touch the dog. I already said that if the DOG IS ALLOWED to do the overt approaching towards a still quiet person she'll just sniff and observe and then shes fine ( but the person has to remain subdued ). Can you reasonably explain why a fearful dog would approach and sniff out " a simple person ",( whose only change in demeanour is a cessation of attempting to be overt towards meeting the dog ).
BTW hntr ..a good theory is able to explain a wide class of observations but some how your simple" fear model " does not achieve that.
by Gee on 18 January 2016 - 00:01
Problem is - they have read to many crap books, and trained zero dogs to EVEN know what defense, smells/looks like.
Suffice to say - they will never demonstrate there own dog working in that drive - because they either don't own a bloody dog, or they will never own a dog in that gear lol.
Gee
by Zenit2010 on 18 January 2016 - 01:01
I think the answer with regards to your dog may lie in the initial non-verbal messages she received from you regarding her initial introduction to strangers when she a puppy versus her conditioning to her busy NYC environment. I do think she is "nervy" (due to genetics), but you may have unwittingly exacerbated her nervy feelings about humans somewhere along the line to where she is now dangerously suspicious of normal everyday human activity outside of her home. Likewise I think you probably very calmly and positively conditioned her to the noisy environment of a big city. She has negative feelings about humans, but she is neutral about loud noises and machinery and busy streets.
Regarding the vet...he is most likely very nervous about treating your dog. She picks up on that nervousness and it makes her nervous about being around him. She shows her teeth and growls, and he backs away, which gives her power. I had a dog like her too, and I was in the same boat...yearly vet visits and anytime my dog was ill required a muzzle and a sedative. I feel for your situation. A trainer may be able to help, but you will never be able to let down your guard. The people on this board speak some important truths about your dog's nerve situation. Don't discount their input because they're not telling you what you want to hear. She is a lovely looking dog and I am sure she is awesome with your family. It's the other people in her world and yours that you need to protect from her.
by Mithuna on 18 January 2016 - 01:01
this is what you are trying to have us believe:
a wrackling running power saw and a ground rumbling subway train 20 feet overhead leaves a dog unfazed, but a 115 lb blonde lady suddenly approaches and the dog immediately becomes afraid....the lady stops, stands still...the dog immediately becomes unafraid of the lady and walks up to her and sniffs her.
Its really hard to buy that model of yours.
I can also try to use your fear explanation for the incident of the beach. Dog is 6 mos old and off leash exploring the shoreline about 30 feet away from me. Suddenly I become aware of a jacket clad figure with guitar case in the distance. The figure comes within 20 feet of me and withing that time the fearful dog has run from 40 feet ( 20 feet from behind me and 20 feet forward me ), and goes for the person's coated hand. I tell the person dont move and the dog disengages. It is difficult to simply invoke the connotative meaning of fear to explain the dog's behavior.
by hntrjmpr434 on 18 January 2016 - 01:01
I hope you are able to manage your dog more efficiently Mithuna. I would be sad to know that she hurt someone and had to be PTS.
by Mithuna on 18 January 2016 - 01:01
I thought you would go into defense for because you became afraid that you model was not able to explain a wide class of observations.
by hexe on 18 January 2016 - 05:01
She's 18 months old, so there is still sufficient time to retrain her social skills, but the longer you permit her to behave this way, the harder it is going to be to get through to her before someone gets bitten seriously enough to make an issue of it. She doesn't have to fawn all over people [despite having one dog that does this, I don't like to see that in a dog either, TBH]--she DOES have to tolerate the approach of or examination by a non-threatening person because you require that she do so. It's for her own safety, really.
by yogidog on 18 January 2016 - 07:01
by Hundmutter on 18 January 2016 - 08:01
non-threatening female stranger but totally ignore power
tools ? Posters above have given you the answers; but put
a bit more simply, the answer to that one, Mithuna, is two-fold:
1 Are YOU equally (and entirely logically), afraid of /
worried by EVERYTHING in your life ? Say do you
regard house fires the same way as shuffling footsteps
in the dark ? Why expect a dog's brain to work any
differently to your own ?
2 Habituation. JMO but I'd lay a pound to a penny that
chainsaw wasn't the first rackety machine your dog has heard
in her life time, you have probably - consciously or not -
conditioned her to such things since she was tiny.
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