A video appeared on Youtube today purportedly showing a Police Officer abusing his department K9 - Page 5

IMO Alienor has nailed it - depends on the dog. Perception is reality.

For the record, I use and advocate positive reinforcement for training first and to the extent that it effects the desired result.  Having said that, my experience is that it is of limited value in controlling undesirable behaviors or responding to a dog whom you know understand what he/she is being asked to do but refuses to comply because there are no consequences for making that choice.  Operant conditioning has four quadrants, not two.

bzcz, you have no idea what data I have access to or what I dream for that matter lol.  The study you are citing was done in 1968 to research "learned helplessness" and would never be allowed today.  I am hoping that is not the extent of your familiarity with canid research, especially in light of your wife's line of work (I have a good friend who got her PhD in genetics and is amazing), congrats to your wife, I studied genetics in undergrad for a short time and can appreciate how brilliant she must be.

Hundmutter, unfortunately you are correct that there is not a lot of research that has been published on working dogs yet.  From what I understand there is research being currently designed and carried out on working dogs and training methods and hopefully it will be published soon.  Most of the research in the media uses pets or shelter dogs because that is easiest for the lay public to understand and relate to.  Most scientific research (that has been done to date on canids' cognition and affect) is published in scholarly journals that general public doesn't read.  There is grant money out there for research into more effective working dog training because of the liability of having K9s and SAR dogs (sadly the public is becoming more and more litigious).  Being able to back up training methods with empirical data and detailed record keeping on training methods used and results is the difference between winning or losing a lawsuit.  As for the rhino horn metaphor, I was using it to show how entrenched beliefs can be, not to indicate entrenched training methods are killing dogs, maybe more clarification would have helped. Horowitz, A. (2012) Fair is fine, but more is better: Limits to inequity aversion in domestic dog may explain why dogs will remain with an "unfair" (the researchers' definition) handler and in some cases respond well to them.  The K9 handler in the video appeared to lose patience with his K9 and the nature of law enforcement work is stressful, and hopefully the retraining helped so he does not get to that point again.

Oh geez, this study is not about dog training either.  And it counters your arguement by concluding that dogs appear to prefer trainers who have a greater reward quantity than they are fair.  Doesn't tell you anything about how to train, just what dogs appear to prefer in this limited study. 

bzcz

There is grant money being used to fund research into effective K9 training methods, look under law enforcement grants, UC Davis grants, and a few others out there.  Research into effective training methods and dog cognition and affect per training environments is an area gaining interest so I am sure there will be a large body of knowledge available very soon.  As I stated above, research is currently being designed and implemented to find empirical support for effective K9 training methods.  The study I mentioned above was about dogs preference for fair vs unfair trainers.  The unfair trainer used more treats during the familiarization process which caused dogs that were raised in uncooperative environment to prefer immediate gratification despite the unfair methods, the dogs raised in a cooperative environment avoided the unfair trainer.  The study conclusion suggests a mutually respectful cooperative training method is what is best for dog and trainer.  The study discusses the limitations and suggestions for further research as any empirical study would.
 

Wrong conclusion, and this is turning into a colossal waste of time. 
 

The study showed that dogs would go to an unfair trainer if they had the possiblity of a greater reward quantinty.

It was a study on social justice NOT dog training.  It did nothing to explore the neg consequences (because there were none).  It didn't explore operant conditioning at all.  It was NOTHING about dog training. The dogs were just a study tool.

Complete obfuscation on your part trying to justify yourself.

Whatever bzcz, this just indicates how invested you are in justifying your training methods despite the possibility of new information regarding the ability of dogs.  Peace out and I pray your dogs will someday benefit from the new data out there.

lol. 
 

So when they continued asking him, he lifted himself up and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him be the first to cast a stone.........

If you work/train with any animal for any length of time, at some point (Even the Best Trainers) you will do something you regret.

This does excuse your actions or mean it's okay or right in anyone's mind.......let' face the facts.........sometimes shit happens.

Kim

Absolutely right,  Kim.  Can anybody here place their hand over their heart and say they never lost their temper with an animal ?