Does good bitework = good protection work? - Page 5

Geez doesn't anyone drink American beer anymore?

Good bitework does not necessarily = good protection work, well not for points anyway. Once you have a dog that can do good protection work then protection becomes much more about control than anything else. Now if you take a good bitework dog and train it to do personal protection it should be relatively easy. It should take some work because sport dogs are trained not to bite as much as they are trained to bite. A helper does not need to be at any more risk than is necessary. Realcold(Bob) put together a program for a dog I hear raves about. The dog is a civil dog who walks loose through day care centers playing with children and minutes later will be out in a field doing real aggressive protection work with bad intentions in its eyes. In my humble opinion that is the total package. Paul

thank for the laughs oldguy... so a schutzhund dog doesn't need to be as clear headed as a pp dog... oldguy, oldguy... m.

I get the sense that today's schutzhund people so jealously try to guard their turf that any comment is misinterpreted to mean that schutzhund dogs are not worthy. As a result the insults and the demeaning attitudes start to show themselves. Yes Maxll, that's exactly what I mean, a schutzhund dod does not have the necessary training to be as clear headed in certain circumstances that a Personal protection dog has to deal with. Schutzhund training is training by rote. The dog is trained to do the same actions session after session, especially as high level competition approaches. The dog is judged on how well he carries out the series of steps that have been taught to him over and over. There is no variation of this in competition. And there shouldn't be. Otherwise how could one judge one dog against another if the situations were to vary? On the other hand a Personal Protection dog is exposed to as many and varied situations as the trainers can devise for the particular job he will be doing. If it is intended that the dog be used in protecting children, then the dog must be exposed to as many situations as can be designed. For example, the dog is left to watch over a child, a non-threatening person approaches and leaves. Next a non threatening person approaches, acts very suspiciously but keeps a distance , then leaves, next a non threatening person approaches the child, eventually becoming threatening and the dog has to react. Next a non threatening person approaches begins to act suspiciously, the dog alerts, and suddenly a second person approaches, they both leave. next a non threatening person approaches, begins to show threatening behavior, the dog reacts, and a second person approaches, shows himself to be a threat as well and the dog has to deal with two threats in protecting his charge. he must learn to attack, release, attack the #2 person, release, and not concentrate his efforts on just one.

It is that clear-headedness that I am referring to. Could you schutzhund dog do this? Not in a million years without further extensive training. Could he do it then? Maybe. I'm sure there are a lot of schutzhund sport dogs that could probably be further trained and fill the roll of a Personal Protection Dog, but if you want to keep your schutzhund blinders on and say that a schutzhund sport dog is trained to do everything a personal protection dog can do then you are very misguided and no amount of laughing or snide remarks is going to compensate for that. Could your schutzhund dog deal with an intruder in a dark room who offers him something to eat? I doubt it. Doesn't have the training. Could your schutzhund dog deal with an assailant that is holding a stick in one hand and a knife or a gun in the other? Yeah, right. Could he be trained to do it? Maybe. When you were but a little sperm swimming around your daddy's sack, my dog was watching out for bad guys that were going to shell us that night if we didn't find them. AND he had to do so under complete control. no barking no noises. Could your schutzhund dog do that? Let's try it.

Quit taking every comment made as if it means that schutzhund dogs aren't worthy. Look at it as it is intended: Schutzhund dogs are not trained for Personal Protection work unless they've had the additional training. Take off your blinders and you'll discover there is a whole 'nother world out there. Or not.

Watch it ONG. Your dating yourself and some here may take that as a sign of weakness. Great swimming line. Was that WW1 or WW2? Your point is taken and just too bad there is not a competition to seperate the real people in PP from the hucksters and wannabee's. --Bob

realcold, since you and I have corresponded by email I'm going to let you get away with that! lol! No actually it was Vietnam, and I'm not the least bit worried about dating myself. The competition in the PP arena has always been and I suppose will always be who has the best reputation in training these dogs and who should a mega-rich person or corporation call when they need those services. In that competition there are much bigger bucks involved than in schutzhund or Ring sport.

All hail ONG...lol

Don't hail, send money.