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by Shtal on 18 March 2013 - 12:03
Ruger1,
Anytime when I start the debade/Bible talk, I always want to me sure that there is a big differentness between believe vs. what the Bibile says...
And If you know that for sure you don't loose salvation, show me that in sciptures or if NOT then I am not interested in the believes.
Shtal.
Anytime when I start the debade/Bible talk, I always want to me sure that there is a big differentness between believe vs. what the Bibile says...
And If you know that for sure you don't loose salvation, show me that in sciptures or if NOT then I am not interested in the believes.
Shtal.
by Ruger1 on 18 March 2013 - 12:03
Shtal..I am going to be straight forward and to the point..I have sat long enough listening to you all..
Scripture speaks for itself,,,Stop letting others teach you their screwed up doctrine and read and study for yourself. It will be hard at first to go to the scriptures without reading your learned doctrine into it, but over time you will see ..
Scripture speaks for itself,,,Stop letting others teach you their screwed up doctrine and read and study for yourself. It will be hard at first to go to the scriptures without reading your learned doctrine into it, but over time you will see ..
by Shtal on 18 March 2013 - 12:03
I am asking you again, show me the scricture? is it that hard?
by Ruger1 on 18 March 2013 - 12:03
No, I am not posting scripture for you.I am tired of this game of posting scripture by copy and paste,...It is your burden to prove what you are preaching on this forum. Post a scripture that proves what you are trying to preach and teach people on this forum and we can discuss it in light of the "whole" of scripture,,
We are not going to pluck out random verses and copy and paste other peoples words and videos. You can not build a theology on a handful of scriptures..God's Word must be understood as a whole in light of Gods character / nature and the content of Scripture as a whole.
* I am stepping out I will be back..:)
We are not going to pluck out random verses and copy and paste other peoples words and videos. You can not build a theology on a handful of scriptures..God's Word must be understood as a whole in light of Gods character / nature and the content of Scripture as a whole.
* I am stepping out I will be back..:)
by GSDguy08 on 18 March 2013 - 13:03
Rugar, never make a claim unless you are willing to back it up by Scripture. If you teach a doctrine (once saved always saved which is never taught in the Scriptures!) without Scripture to back it up, it has no validity to it. There are plenty of Scriptures and examples in Scriptures of those who lost their Salvation, and that one can lose it. Seeing that you are beyond set to not be open to looking to them......Then there is no reason to even say anything else to you about it. If you don't want to hear Scriptures (which is where the only "doctrine" on Salvation should come from), then this debate is pointless.
by gouda on 18 March 2013 - 13:03
Deana
Lets start here, 2 Peter 3:15-18
Unstable Christians twist these verses.The false teachers claimed that Pauls doctrine of salvation
by grace meant Christians could still live in sin.But paul himself COMMANDED holy living and emphatically
denied this understanding of his teaching see Rom. 6:1,2,15 16.
Lest you fall from Gods grace and lose your salvation.
gouda
Lets start here, 2 Peter 3:15-18
Unstable Christians twist these verses.The false teachers claimed that Pauls doctrine of salvation
by grace meant Christians could still live in sin.But paul himself COMMANDED holy living and emphatically
denied this understanding of his teaching see Rom. 6:1,2,15 16.
Lest you fall from Gods grace and lose your salvation.
gouda
by GSDguy08 on 18 March 2013 - 13:03
Gouda here are a couple you may be familiar with as well. Hebrews 10:23-27
Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful; 24 and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, 25 not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near. 26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries.
2 Peter 2:20-22 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 21 For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them. 22 It has happened to them according to the true proverb, “A dog returns to its own vomit,” and, “A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire.”
Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful; 24 and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, 25 not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near. 26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries.
2 Peter 2:20-22 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 21 For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them. 22 It has happened to them according to the true proverb, “A dog returns to its own vomit,” and, “A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire.”
by Ruger1 on 18 March 2013 - 15:03
Nope ,,GSDguy I am not going to play that game either,,I do not have a problem posting scriptures and I am always happy to debate. I could post scripture all day and night as some do that is not difficult to do. I am as familiar with the scriptures as you all are, maybe more so, but what will that accomplish? We all know the same scriptures, but we choose to interpret them according to our theological beliefs.. Shtal, Gouda, and now you have decided that this forum is the place to discuss your theology. I am merely going to give all those reading this thread, including you, food for thought. I have been raised and taught your "way of believing" most of my life and I have no desire to argue you out it. It doesn't work that way I know from experience...
Gouda, I will not comment until you post one verse and we discuss it in light of the character/ nature of God and the scripture as a whole..I have read those verses and I am familiar with their content. And no, I am not going to fall from Gods grace Gouda,,One day you will see that it's not that you are holding on to God, but He has hold of you...You did not earn your salvation nor did I and we are not going to loose it either,,You do not understand God, His nature or His character and that is yours, Shtals, and GSDguys problem as well as anyone else who teaches your biblical theology..
Gouda, I will not comment until you post one verse and we discuss it in light of the character/ nature of God and the scripture as a whole..I have read those verses and I am familiar with their content. And no, I am not going to fall from Gods grace Gouda,,One day you will see that it's not that you are holding on to God, but He has hold of you...You did not earn your salvation nor did I and we are not going to loose it either,,You do not understand God, His nature or His character and that is yours, Shtals, and GSDguys problem as well as anyone else who teaches your biblical theology..
by Ruger1 on 18 March 2013 - 15:03
GSDguy, I am going to respond to your post above.This verse,
"2 Peter 2:20-22 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 21 For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them. 22 It has happened to them according to the true proverb, “A dog returns to its own vomit,” and, “A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire.”
There is merely knowledge of the Lord, not faith. These people are turning away from the command to believe and repent. And the fact that these are referred to as dogs returning to their vomit, and pigs to mud, clearly shows us that these did not belong to God in the first place.
Now this second verse,
"Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful; 24 and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, 25 not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near. 26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries."
Yes, if someone continues to go on willfully sinning after coming to the knowledge of truth they have more then likely not been regerated. It is possible for people to be presented with the truth and claim to believe, but not be regenerated. That is why a lifestyle must follow a profession. However, that does not mean that if we sin we lose our salvation.You are taking liberties that scripture does not teach.There is no way to come to the knowlegde of truth through regeneration and not be changed.
"2 Peter 2:20-22 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 21 For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them. 22 It has happened to them according to the true proverb, “A dog returns to its own vomit,” and, “A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire.”
There is merely knowledge of the Lord, not faith. These people are turning away from the command to believe and repent. And the fact that these are referred to as dogs returning to their vomit, and pigs to mud, clearly shows us that these did not belong to God in the first place.
Now this second verse,
"Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful; 24 and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, 25 not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near. 26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries."
Yes, if someone continues to go on willfully sinning after coming to the knowledge of truth they have more then likely not been regerated. It is possible for people to be presented with the truth and claim to believe, but not be regenerated. That is why a lifestyle must follow a profession. However, that does not mean that if we sin we lose our salvation.You are taking liberties that scripture does not teach.There is no way to come to the knowlegde of truth through regeneration and not be changed.
by Ruger1 on 18 March 2013 - 16:03
Gouda, I have also decided to respond to your post above .
Rom. 6:1,2,15 16. Not sure why you posted this, Of course I do not think that grace gives us a right to sin..Give me a brake this is Christianity 101...
As far as this verse 2 Peter 3:15-18..This "secure position"...You obviously think this is referring to the position of salvation. We know this can not be true because those who God has given to Christ are His and can not be snatched away..So this secure position must mean from your position in "what you believe", not meaning "your salvation"...All scripture must agree. Christ does not tell us that we are secure in His hand and then let us go..
Rom. 6:1,2,15 16. Not sure why you posted this, Of course I do not think that grace gives us a right to sin..Give me a brake this is Christianity 101...
As far as this verse 2 Peter 3:15-18..This "secure position"...You obviously think this is referring to the position of salvation. We know this can not be true because those who God has given to Christ are His and can not be snatched away..So this secure position must mean from your position in "what you believe", not meaning "your salvation"...All scripture must agree. Christ does not tell us that we are secure in His hand and then let us go..
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