Very low civil drive - Page 5

Markobytes,

That was very educating and put in an easy way to understand.

Alice,

Though your post was more difficult and more technical but it is one of the best educational posts in this thread.

Slamdunc,

I would love to hear how you look at civil drive, in fact I was wishing for a simple explanation like when you explained to me prey and defense drives, but I now believe this civil thing is more complex.

Ibrahim

NorthwoodsGSD, my girl was that way as well. My grand kids could do anything with her or to her, & she was a complete pussycat; but try to sneak up on her, or us- look out! No formal training, just a little OB, & I taught her to respond to, "Who's out there?" With search. & bark, I called it- before I knew about schutzhund, she would check every door & window & bark at anyone out there, position herself by the front door if she didn't 'find' anyone. It was game she enjoyed, but once there was a guy there, & she nearly went through my kitchen window to get him! jackie harris

I must add that my girl would herd my grand kids around, & shouldn't a good herding personality be protective? And isn't that protective against bad people = civil? That's how I understood civil. jackie harris

This has been a very good post, Ibrahim gave some good links and the early posts were in my opinion to the point. I can't help to think that the topic has become too muddled, there is a big difference in being protective and being civil. Years ago I came in contact with a West German Conformation line that had civil protection training, she was a serious dog that was way past being protective. Her training was contrary to her genetics but there must have been enough of it there naturally to bring it out. I too wish to see Slamdunc or Gustav enlighten us on this topic as well as hear opinions on what is acceptable and how it falls in the breed standard. Susie I wonder if you are describing possession in your male dogs although I agree with you in regards to individuality.

Susie,

You said: A little bit off topic, but important: Most of the males (!) I raised by myself, out of totally different lines, became very protectiv / civil. Either I choosed always the same kind of puppy and/or I tend to raise them in a way they develop similar

At what age did they become protective and civil?
Protective of you or the property/territory?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ue0fZfwHfzo&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Chaz,
A classic!  Where have you been lately?

for Chaz....

Ibrahim - I started thinking about this question when my current male grew up.
I always choosed the puppies by myself, only directed by my feelings out of different lines and kennels, but  all of my self raised males ( 4 ) started being protective of me, my family, my property, my car, when they were around 1 1/2 years old, all of them had/have low civil drive, I got all of them in the age of 8/9 weeks. The dogs itselves had different drives - one had no prey drive at all, one too much, 2 others somewhat between. 2 of them were real hunters, 1 didn´t care at all, 1 of them is a hunter by chance, but all of them had/have stable nerves (unstable nerves combined with low civil drive=a lot of danger and a lot of trouble).
First civil signs all of them showed at the club as youngsters - all of them didn´t care for the sleeve but for the helper, although I always tried to work with prey. Over the years I didn´t use the same helper, didn´t even train in the same club. I really don´t like working without any prey; prey combined with civil drive makes things much easier, under pression there is more stability (like walking on 2 legs).
All of them always accepted me as there alpha, 3 of them accepted the whole family, my current male has some problems in accepting my now 20 years old son. Two of them were kennel raised, the latest 2 live(d) in the house. All of them were/are very self-confident. ( Didn´t work for me with females, though....), and necassarily all of them were well trained..
I trained and handled quite a lot of German Shepherds over the years, but most of the dogs I met had a lot of prey drive, but less or none civil drive.
Thinking about this I came to the result, that my self raised dogs must be the result of my character, my behavior, and my environment.

Susie,
So are you saying that you have low civil drive?