Question for the Service Dog People on Here - Page 5

Thanks for your kind remarks and your interest. Because I have a service dog, I have made sure that I know exactly what the rules are. The Department of Justice has been amazingly sensible about service dogs, and I hope it stays that way.

By the way, the DOJ is aware of the fake service animal issue, and it's one of the reasons they decided to restrict legal service animals to dogs and miniature horses. By "legal service animal" I mean a service animal that has a legal right to enter public accommodations like restaurants, theaters, etc. Obviously you can use any animal you like as a service animal at home.

Here are some more details for those who are interested. This is from

http://www.ada.gov/regs2010/titleIII_2010/titleIII_2010_fr.pdf

(pages 56270-56373), a searchable PDF with a lot of great information about service dogs. (Emphasis added.)

Training requirement. Certain commenters recommended the adoption of formal training requirements for service animals. . . . [T]he Department has determined that such a modification would not serve the full array of individuals with disabilities who use service animals, since individuals with disabilities may be capable of training, and some have trained, their service animal to perform tasks or do work to accommodate their disability. A training and certification requirement would increase the expense of acquiring a service animal and might limit access to service animals for individuals with limited financial resources.
 
Some commenters proposed specific behavior or training standards for service animals, arguing that without such standards, the public has no way to differentiate between untrained pets and service animals. Many of the suggested behavior or training standards were lengthy and detailed.

Think of all the nincompoop trainers you know, and imagine having them decide whether your service dog is "good enough." I shudder to think of the unreasonable requirements they would impose. For example, part of my service dog's job is to be next to me at all times when he is on duty, for mobility support and in case I lose my balance. Some of the trainers who demand certification would require that the service dog calmly and happily accept being taken away by a stranger when the dog is working. Although my dog would not become aggressive about this, he would try to get away and come back to me so he can do his job. If the pro-certification trainers got their way, he would be barred as unfit for service dog work because of this.

More from the DOJ:

[One] proposal would also require persons with disabilities to obtain medical documentation and carry it with them any time they seek to engage in ordinary activities of daily life in their communities—something individuals without disabilities have not been required to do. Accordingly, the Department has concluded that a documentation requirement of this kind would be unnecessary, burdensome, and contrary to the spirit, intent, and mandates of the ADA.

Exclusion of service animals. The 1991 regulatory provision in § 36.302(c) addresses reasonable modification and remains unchanged in the final rule. However, based on comments received and the Department’s analysis, the Department has decided to clarify those circumstances where otherwise eligible service animals may be excluded by public accommodations. In the NPRM, in § 36.302(c)(2)(i), the Department proposed that a public accommodation may ask an individual with a disability to remove a service animal from the place of public accommodation if ‘‘[t]he animal is out of control and the animal’s handler does not take effective action to control it.’’ 73 FR 34508, 34553 (June 17, 2008). The Department has long held that a service animal must be under the control of the handler at all times. Commenters overwhelmingly were in favor of this language, but noted that there are occasions when service animals are provoked to disruptive or aggressive behavior by agitators or troublemakers, as in the case of a blind individual whose service dog is taunted or pinched. While all service animals are trained to ignore and overcome these types of incidents, misbehavior in response to provocation is not always unreasonable. In circumstances where a service animal misbehaves or responds reasonably to a provocation or injury, the public accommodation must give the handler a reasonable opportunity to gain control of the animal. Further, if the individual with a disability asserts that the animal was provoked or injured, or if the public accommodation otherwise has reason to suspect that provocation or injury has occurred, the public accommodation should seek to determine the facts and, if provocation or injury occurred, the public accommodation should take effective steps to prevent further provocation or injury, which may include asking the provocateur to leave the place of public accommodation. This language is unchanged in the final rule.

There's also some great info on the use of miniature horses as service animals. Until I looked into this, I had no idea that horses could do this. I shouldn't have been surprised, since many horses are incredibly bright and stable. I'll stick with GSDs, but I really admire the service horses.
 

On the point about reasonable scope to get a dog back under control when there has been
some form of provocation,  does the DOJ have anything to say about other dogs which
are allowed to attack service dogs ?  Here in the UK we've seen an increase in the number
of Guide Dogs (Seeing Eye) which have been, often badly, attacked by the dogs of other
people - some of whom seem to find this such an amusing pastime they not only fail to
control their animals, they have been known to actually sic'em on to do it.  USA cases of
a similar nature ?

Hundmutter, I've read some of the stories about service dogs being attacked, and it's just awful. There have been cases like that in the U.S., plus cases where the disabled owner was attacked and the dog didn't protect the owner because the "certified" service dog was provided by an organization that demanded dogs with zero protection sense.

The DOJ does not handle cases like these, unless the attack was done as a hate crime, or as a means of denying the disabled person access or discriminating against them because of their disability. However, some states have laws that make it a crime to interfere with a service dog's work, and a felony to seriously injure or kill a service dog.

One of the reasons given for certification is that service dogs are supposedly very dangerous to the public and must be certified to protect the public. I know of only one case in which a service dog atacked someone, and the attack occurred while the dog was off duty. It is far more likely that the service dog will be victimized by an attack.

"Service dogs are dangerous to the public".   ???  How's that supposed to be ?  Who had
that bright idea, based on what evidence ?

Wow I guess I am really out of the loop. When I read the part about people taunting or pinching guide dogs, that just made me sick. And then the part about people getting off on their dogs teasing and jumping on guide dogs. What in the hell is wrong with people to be so cruel? Can they not understand that they could be in that person's shoes at any time? Accidents happen, things change quickly.

Not to get into a long ordeal but this is how quickly things can change in one's life. I had just gotten off work--Dallas TX--I had had a very profitable day at the grooming shop. Before I left to go catch the bus, I called my best friend who lived next door and asked if he wanted me to bring him a hamburger from downtown. There was a place that made great burgers and yummy even greater fried clam dinners so I was going there and also to get my nightly beer. At this time altho I have always been a big woman, I was in shape, athletic, belonged to a PP club and had a great litter of Mal pups on the ground, etc. Lots of things going for me. I walked about 6 blocks where I had a choice of several buses--yay walk light is on, I am going for the median--drunk driver is arguing with his pasenger, runs the light, makes an illegal left turn and I try to get to the median, realize I am not going to make it . I remember looking at the driver and he is no more looking at me then the man in the moon. I decided to turn my left side to him because I am right handed--not what difference does that make? I don't know cause it's funny the things that are on your mind when you realize you are about to be run over by a 3/4 ton service truck. So he hits me, knocks me about 4 car lengths, breaks my leg and then when I hit the concrete it knocked a big chunk out of my tibia. When I came to, a spanish man was trying to help me. And I was pissed--not at the man but at the driver and I wanted to get up and cuss him out. The man trying to help me said my head was bleeding and I couldn't get up. I didn't realize my leg and collerbone was busted and  a busted disc in my back--I didn't feel any pain--only anger--I have never been the same since physically--I limp some, use a cane and I live with pain every day of my life. I am telling this story because that's how quickly things can change. And I would never wish it on anybody.  People really need to think...........I think we should really be kinder to our fellow man--especially those with obvious disabilities--at the very least respecting them enough to leave them alone and if they have a dog let him/her do their job.............................

Oh VonIssk, so sorry to hear all about the accident and resulting damage !  I could not
agree with you more about the need to respect people's extra needs - and dogs that
assist them;  unfortunately we hear of things nowadays that happen where that was
not the case, and I'm constantly sickened.  Sure we hear more because communications
channels increase all the time in this modern world, but more such things must be
occuring, some people seem to become increasingly detached and unable to empathise. 

Ah Vonnisk, that stinks. You are so right, disability can happen to anyone--an accident, a brutal mugging, a stroke, cancer, and so on. There you are, minding your own business, and bam! Suddenly you're one of the disabled, which does indeed make discrimination against disabled people not only rotten but incredibly stupid.

There's been some interesting psych research that shows that many people cannot deal with the possibility that they too could become disabled. So they deny it, and discriminating against disabled people and harming them and their dogs is one way of denying it. The only consolation we have is that overall things are improving, although not fast enough. We have the Americans with Disabilities Act, which gives us a way to stand up for ourselves and our service dogs. But it can be a battle.

I wish there was a magic piece of paper I could wave at people and make them stop harassing me about my service dog. But they would just claim a certification paper and ID were fakes. We're going to get service dog access only if we fight for it. In my area, a movie theatre barred a disabled lady with her Golden Retriever service dog because the manager claimed that the dog might bite someone. That hit the papers and the Internet, the lady hired an attorney, and next thing you know, the case settled and I found that movie theatres that had only grudgingly let me in with my service dog suddenly became very welcoming.

Hundmutter, I kept hearing the idiotic "service dogs are dangerous unless they're certified" claim during certification debates on forums before the DOJ settled the matter.
.

Yeah there I was minding my biz, happy cause I had made good money and also because it was rush hour and I knew I wouldn't have to wait long for a bus...........

You know Susan you are absolutely right about people and their denials. I have always known and believed that people who talked down to others or made fun of what they did were actually doing worse things or lower then that person but it made them feel better about themselves to put someone else down. I never thought about it in the disability sense. Thank you for making that point.

Myself I do not have a handicapped sticker on my car. Why? Because I feel like there are people in worse condition than me that might need that parking space. If I am at a store that has outside cart parking places I just get one and use it for support. I have a tribal CHR (Community Health Representative) that takes me to the dr, if I need my BP and all that checked she does that and she just checks on me in general. Generally I call her in the morning to check on her and give her a smile for the day. I try not to bother her, even tho it is her job and she gets paid for it because I know she has elders in much worse shape then me that need her. Oh and she has made friends with all the dogs so if I go off for a couple of days I know they will be taken care of.  To me that is far more important then BP anyway--my meds keep me regulated.................Can't give the dogs pills to be good and fix your own food while I'm gone. LOL

I am glad you are welcome at the theatres now but it's a crying shame what had to be done to make it so. People are so dumb about dogs in the respect that they don't know 99% of service/guide dogs come from reputable places and as we know the dog has to have a rock solid temperament before it would even be considered to be placed in any type of situation. Actually to even begin to start training for a job. And it is also a shame they stay on you about your dog's certification. It's just a shame that people are like they are in this day and age.................
And Hundmutter thank you for your kind words...............

Migraines most certainly can be a disability.  There are people who are on SSDI because of their migraines (yes, their only or primary health issue).  Sure, those who only get a migraine once a year aren't disabled by it, but those with Chronic Migraine, which is 15 or more per month, are.  A migraine is not a headache.  It is a progressive neurological disease with multiple symptoms, one of which may be excruciating head pain (much more painful than any headache those without the disease have ever had).Not everybody or every migraine episode has the head pain symptom - this is called "silent migraine" (and has a few other names).  There are many migraine symptoms one can get, some of whichare dizziness, vertigo, nausea, vomiting, sinus issues*, body pain, diarrhea, constipation, photophobia (sensitivity to light), phonophobia (sensitivity to sounds), tinnitus (ringing in the ears), visual disturbances (including blind spots/loss of sight), loss of the ability to speak, temporary paralysis, loss of conciousness, no memory of what happened during a timeframe, and more.  (*Most of what people think are sinus headaches - that's 90% of them - are actually migraines.  Sinus headaches only happen when you have a sinus infection, which you would know about by the time it got to the stage where the headache would happen.)  Migraines have been declared by the health organization to be as disabling as quadriplegia.  When you have a disabing migraine, you feel like you are going to die or wish that you would.

Migraines also cause brain damage, as seen on MRI scans.  And migraineurs have a higher risk for stroke.  There are several different types of migraine, from migraine with aura to hemiplegic migraines, with migraine without aura being the most common.

There are many different triggers that can bring on a migraine episode and everybody is different.  One potential trigger is a woman's mensstrual period hormones, but that does not happen for every woman with  migraine disease nor are hormones the reason more women have migraine disease than men.  Other possible triggers include weather, certain foods, light, certain scents, and more.  (Common food triggers are MSG, wine, aged cheese, caffeine, chocolate, tomatoes, and many more.)  Some triggers are not just one thing, but a combination of things - these are called stackable triggers.  Some people know their triggers, some don't, as they can be very difficult to figure out even when keeping a diary.  Some triggers can't be avoided, such as the weather and light.

Migraines are related to seizures.  Many seizure alert dogs also alert to migraines without being trained for the migraines.  Some of the medications used for migraines are seizure medications.  (There are three types of migraine medication: preventives, abortives, and rescue meds.  Preventives are for people with Chronic Migraine and who get several migraines per month.  As the name suggests, they prevent the migraine from happening or lessen the symptoms/severity of the symptoms. They are taken daily.  Abortives are used to stop the migraine in its tracks and the earlier they are taken, the better they work.  Rescue meds are used if the abortives failed to work and many migraineurs go to the ER for such meds.  It is dangerous to have a single migraine for more than three days.)

Dogs can indeed be trained to do seizure, migraine, or diabetic alerts.  This is done by scent training.  The dogs alert to the scent people's bodies put out during such medical episodes.  Clothing worn by a person during such an episode is used for the training.  Dogs can also alert to other things like cancer, drugs, produce, pirated DVDs, and more.  If you do a Google search for it, there is a message board all about training medical alert dogs, specifically seizure and diabetic alert dogs.

A migraine alert service dog would be very helpful for a migraineur so they can take an abortive med early on in the stages of migraine before the main symptoms  (such as head pain) begin.  (There are four stages of a migraine, though not everyone or every migraine gets/has all four stages.  Most migraineurs do not get an aura, but some do, for instance.)  Many migraineurs have been through so many meds and haven't found one that works for them, including preventives and rescue meds.  Other tasks a migraine service dog  (not needing to be an alert dog) can do are balance and counter-balance during dizziness, vertigo, nausea, pins-and-needles feelings, etc; retrieve items, including meds and water, for their handler during those same symptoms and temporary paralysis; get help at home or In public; call 9-1-1; alert to the time to take preventive meds (migraines can cause forgetfulness); turn off lights (photophobia is a common symptom); do hallucination discernment (visual, audio, and scent hallucinations can be symptoms); and many more for the wide variety of symptoms of migraine.

I have chronic migraine (daily) that is bad without treatments.  I have a service dog who can do some of the above tasks as well as other tasks for my other disabilities (which are not related to my migraines).  Mobility work is her main thing.

Vonissk's experience is an example of how our lives can change in the blink of an eye. One day any of us could need a service dog and we won't be wanting to have our dogs or our disabiliites questioned.  It's the pretenders who do the most harm to this outstanding program IMO. Those are  dog people in the know who buy a service vest on the net so they can take their dogs on a plane at no cost or into a restaurant or some other place where dogs are normally restricted. They should be ashamed but they are not; they think they are beating the system. They are not members of the dog dumb public, they are people who know better, but who have no qualms about lying about their needs and their dog's training just to get something they have no right to have or to get them attention. Some read this board.