Civil Dogs - Page 5

To add, if you had 100 breeders in 1970 breeding this type of dog, even with the split and popularity of sport, wouldn't you believe that there is still that number of breeders producing this? I just think as a whole, the breed has definitely gone to Frodo and his dwarf friends.

dont a lot of breeding dogs with a serious reputation have a high sch, svv, ipo, or zvv  title usually?  that what always confused me when people said "not a sport dog" or non sport linnes when the parents were said to be serious dogs were usually dogs that had sport titles?

Not a sport dog usually means you don't get high scores. The dog isn't a frisbee dog. There are many dogs that score high that are serious, so don't get confused. There are also dogs that have a harder time passing the BH than a SchH3. Anyone that breeds strictly to a point dog is doing disservice to the breed. You brought up the ZVV. What is better, a pedigree chalked with Zvv3 or SP-PS? What do you want? Dogs that tend to be a it more serious lose points here and there. Sure, a good trainer can still score well with any dog, but as a whole, most handlers will lose points left and right.

Lets start off with this. If it were easy finding hard civil dogs my look would be over.

Wander SG Justin vom Pendel Bac has Mink twice Fero twice and Sagus vom Busecker Schloss twice and Askia vom Froschgraben twice. This is line breeding. Mink was a great dog and if you have a puppy as tough as him in your breeding I will buy him.  the only saving grace with Fero in this ped is  he was bred to Askia by far the best breeding ever done with Fero. And as far as Sagus go I believe him to be a shitter.
Nadja vom Schroeder Haus: She has Fero 3 times again to Askia but none the less 3 times way too much. There is a splash of DDR in there as well.

I would never breed these two dogs together because they are too line bred on Fero. In the words of Hurburt (the owner of the late Fero) do not line breed on Fero, and these puppies have him 5 times.
Let me suggest you give a puppy to a top competiter and if he makes the grade make a name for your breeding.

Ace: First of all, Sch dogs can be hard, most are not. Training has nothing to do with hardness. You can not train hardness in a dog nor train it out of one. My prefence is not a DDR or Czech dog. I want a West German all working hard civil German Sheperd. If is easy to find I will come pick you up and we will go get one hell lets get two. I assure you it won't be easy.
   "  I always see handler aggressive as a dog not clear headed"
It has to do more with pecking order, the closer to Alpha the more they are going to test for that position.
   "I think the term "real dog" is a joke."
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=9538
Take a look at this dog. Trailed Sch III 13 times with an average score of 272. Nice sport dog good scores. He was not a protection dog would not bite to protect himself much less me. I owned him.

GSDPACK: If you have a puppy or dog that one can't handle I would love to give it a look.

People: Just prey or just defence or hunt or fight does not make a balanced or good dog. I want see A lot of prey, moderate defence and a lot of fight fight fight.

Do not miss understand I like Sport dogs, Coon dogs, Bird dogs, ect. ect. but I just do not want any fo them My desire is for Civil clear headed protection dogs.

I dont have any puppies, sorry. So there is nothing to show. Besides I am all about Czech dogs and you like West German.
But I sure wish you luck in finding the right dog.

 

GSDPACK: I might be interested in a green dog or a dog someone can not handle,  but no puppies. Puppies are a crap shoot at best. If I do buy a Czech dog it must be all Czech no DDR and no west german. I like Grim, Hard I like a lot of the Pohranicni staze dogs, Police dogs and Cordon An-Sat.
I know that some of the old Pohranicni staze lines have some DDR.

I would want him to be able to get Kkl at least SG.   Dark Sable or black is nice.

Now that you found I am not picky this should be an easy find. LOL



 

Paul...if you say they are too hard to find then I'll take ya word for it.  This is the first thread I have seen on here where someone said they couldn't find a good civil west german line dog.

I wish I could help but I am into Czech GSD's and really don't have that problem when it comes to looking for what you describe.
Well hopefully you will find it..

Paul...if you say they are too hard to find then I'll take ya word for it.

Who said that? I did not. I just said difficult. Maybe we have a different understanding of hard and civil.

ACE952

I totally agree with you that the kennels are breeding as the population wants argument there, but I do not agree with the dogs today are healthier for it is not true shepherd dog has more allergies and for instance pancreas problems than in the past and several other health related problems.



 think how

Tom trainor of vom ausland kennels would be the person I would contact for the type of dog your looking for. He has imported many of them. All west. German lines. Karo vom zeurtner himmelreich is one of many. I can assure you he will get exactly what you want but with the current euro -dollar exchange rate I would expect to dig deep in the pocket....lol. kurt