Training Session for Personal Protection - Page 5

Hi again,

Thank you Duke for the link
I really liked the video "extra gila.van de duca vallei"
That looked like fun (and sporty, my choice...)

So I guess I could call myself a troubled soul - I really do not like "personal protection training" - But I love a dog that can protect....
We can dissect my psyche later....

But in the mean time I came across a few videos I kind of like, granted most are "staged" scenarios but isn't that what ALL training is...?

Here is the link www.youtube.com/user/Balesten#p/u/2/KqBnnGap1WI
be sure to check out the other videos made by the same poster - (I can't call it perfection as I have never me them nor do I know them or the dogs personally, but I like what I see)
Maybe I just like the Czech folks because they work in the snow like I do here in Minnesota
And I'm not afraid to stick my neck out too - I won't put someone else's work out their or ask to see others with out putting out an example of what I have worked with too -   www.youtube.com/watch 

Hope you get the deal on the camera Alboe2009!

Now even though the scenario is outdoors do you see the difference in dogs? For yours at the 29 sec. mark as soon as the man/decoy spoke the dog was keyed and the mode was turned up a notch. Listen to the difference in barks or vocals. Demeanor, drive and confidence. There's more and we could dissect all day but a big difference. And don't want Am to feel bad (because we don't know his story) but if his dog is just starting out then maybe some of that is understandable.

Even when you walked to the side of the car to turn around the dog was still focused and wanted to get back to business.

Memories............ Originally from Michigan and you know, winters are winter! Living in Maryland and we get a little snow and the world shuts down, even D.C.

thanx dawgsome , Extra is a very good dog , I also like him alot

sportguy .. the observations are correct abouit the dog in the video .. most certainly , not a secure confident display .,... but a few points ... first -- [ i hope DON CXORLEONE is reading this thread ] .. this is the problem with terminology used to describe dog behavior .. using cliche words , drive, prey , defense is problematic ] .... people get th econverstations convoluted and also one isin instances  limitted in understanding the dog ... ?? so in this video .. is the dog confused , uncertain , insecure , worried or plum fearful ?? i will let you folks hash that out !! ok ... an insecure dog , an uncertain dog does not mean the dog is in fear .. ok,  a gradient exists that leads to fear .. and a dog [ like a person ] can exhibit a change from one of these to another .. an uncertain dog can be in moments puched into being afraid .. hence again the problem with our use of words .. now sprtguy - a dog can have low stress level , be non couragoues , unable to recover from stress situation -- this is tempertament flaw as most knoe . BUT htis does not make for a "fear biter' as deswcribed by genetics .. anydog pushed beyond it's limits will bite .. but with this temperamnet , if there is an out/ a way to escape/ avoid .. thios dog will take that option ... A 'fear-biter -- just immediately responds [ and yes it is based in genetics / a temperamnt flaw] - it is analogous to an automatic response to bite , no other options to relieve the stress are given a  thought by this kind of dog  ! the difference is that in the first dog .. you can build confidence , however slow .. but you can work with this kind of dog .. a TRUE " fear biter'- by defintion and as the genetics present,  you have no chance to do protection / bite work with ... in the first situation .. you have the ability to keep the dog below it's threshold level so that when it does bite the motivation for the dog is different .. you manipulate the context such that dog dog can be certain , can keep the context to the dog is sure , keep the context controlled so that it has nothing to woryy about .... to the point where the dog can acutally enjoy and have fun ... this is not so with a true "fear biter" .. !  so the moral or point from this video /thread :   is  to have the ability  recognize  a dog being 'TRUE FEAR BITER " as opposed to a dog that is not ,.. a dog that  may or may not have a temprament defect that is still workable , or not workable !!. !! .. you decide how this dog presents and what it is !!!! one last minor point ... the handler here is almost as insecure in the dog and as to what the dog will do as much as the dog itself is .. that's another topic [ BTW -- if you work a dog sir, the handler ..while working ,  get the darn cigarette from out from your mouth , your more stressed than dog -- no wonder the dog is the way it is !!]

APUP,

Totally agree. And there's two different handlers.

And would be nice for OP to RESPOND!

apup , long post to make a short point , anyway , if you bring down the pressurelevel to what makes the dog feel confident , put a confident handler behind te dog etc. etc.  , I  would still be left with the question , what would this dog do in a strange enviroment , with a real life situation

I had a KNPV trainer here yesterday to buy a young dog , he told me about a securityguard with a certified dog that came in a real life situation with more pressure than usual , and his dog fled back into his car
now you dont want to send someone into the night with a dog whos confidence is build on hidden insecurity

Duke that could be a training or handling issue or genetic. Who knows without evaluating the dog. Stories like that are entertaining but not very informative.

The OP dog we have video of. Still not enough to properly evaluate the dog. From the videos I saw I can only tell that the dog might benefit from better training and handling and IMO he is not a fearbiter as I define it.

I think what we should really say about watching dogs like that on video is "hmm interesting". :)

what Im trying to say there sporty , that with proper guidance and trustbuilding a dog can even get a KNPV title , but if they are put out there on a strange place with a crazy stranger , the real quality of the dog will still come out

did you never hear the story of a multi WUSV participant that hat to breed a bitch , and he wouldnot go near her as she was under a carport

I don't see any point to what you are saying at all. What does getting any kind of title have to do with how a dog reacts in a real life situation? Nothing.

So the dog wouldn't go under the carport........then get the damned dog used to the carport. Makes sense to me. Besides.....maybe the bitch was ugly!

maybe if I type slower , it will work

if the dog in the clip is trained better and used to the situation etc , it will look better , but it will not make it a better dog

if a dog is trained on the same field and with the same handler all the time it will look nice , but if you put the dog outside his safe zone , he will probably react different , maybe even run

if you train a dog allways  only on the ipo field , he may be able to perform miracles there , but if you put him on a place he has never been , he will show his real self