Another question about linebreeding - Page 5

Sorry Jeff just seen this: So can you tell me your experience with this ??
was this a question for me? , if so I didnt breed the dog, but for your info he developed an auto immune condition at the age of 2 years, just after his 5 th birthday he developed haemolytic aneamia, another auto immune condition secondary to the first one, unfortunately no amount of drugs and blood transfusions could save him and he was pts Boxing day.
Pam

yes, thank you.  As many times as it occurs in the pedigree, yes.  

Heather

@darylehret:   Deal!!

 Quote:  if so I didnt breed the dog, but for your info he developed an auto immune condition at the age of 2 years, just after his 5 th birthday he developed haemolytic aneamia, another auto immune condition secondary to the first one, unfortunately no amount of drugs and blood transfusions could save him and he was pts Boxing day.
Pam

That is sad to hear, but these recessives were already in the lines. Breeding close with dogs with negative recessives is going to produce stuff like this, but you will see what is in the lines, as opposed to outcrossing all the time.

A way to survey the quality of the bloodlines prior to a successful close linebreeding, is to review the successes of not-so-close, but somewhat converging bloodlines.  IOW, rather than just doing it completely out of the blue with untested lines, you might more safely consider linebreedings that are producing fairly well, and further push the envelope by closely inbreeding on those.  There've been great linebreedings on Held Ritterberg or Troll von der bösen Nachbarschaft for example, that produced well even a step more tightly linebred upon their progeny Bero v Friedersdorfer flur and Yoschy von der Döllenwiese.  Another example could be Fado von Karthago, who was linebred on Bernd v Lierberg, being the linebred focus of Troll v Haus Milinda.  Gradual moves are perhaps better overall, given the current condition of the overall breed.  Yes, it creates bottlenecks, but narrowing the genepool on "the good" genes is the whole point.

daryl,
what do you think about that linebreeding on Nick Heiligenbösch or him in general? Just being curious?
Chris

I can't honestly say, and would still moreso depend on the actual parents, so saying anything in "general" would be very loosely described for sure.  I'm interested to know, but I've not really followed any of the recent close linebreedings on Nick, because I would doubt they suit my needs.

My wife nearly decided to go with a 2-2 Nick male from Tiekerhook (Max X Gina) about a year and a half ago.  I can't even recall why she decided not to.  Women are flighty that way.  She's very fond of my Max son, and wanted one for herself just prior to our separation.  Anyway, she's instead choosing her next prospect from a different recommendation I feel fits her needs more sensibly.  Linebreeding, can't be the heavy focus of your breeding decisions, there's so many other very important angles to look at.  For example, what will complement nicely with the dogs you already have?

Darylehret, having seen my unborn puppies' pedigree, would you call them LOOSELY linebred? I definitely stayed with typiness in structure and working ability, and that's why I decided on yet another Fero line coming in. 

Kind of subjective, but for what I had in mind when I said that, your breeding would be "loosely" to me, while 3%+ COI or 25%+ of the same ancestor would be a good midrange point (fuzzy indicator).  Thing is, the COI and percent common ancestor do not always correlate.  For example, a 3,4 - 5 (1.17% COI)  vs. a 3 - 4,5 (2.34% COI) is twice as much coefficient of inbreeding!  But they're both  21.875% common ancestry, meaning that is the actual percent shared in common with that ancestor's genotype.

 Daryl gives me a headache with all the numbers. My big question in all of that is that you are rolling the dice, so how accurate is all that ? Kinda like having a system for a crap game.

Until the genetic genius's come up with a way to see who came from what ie where more of the genes came from like a prepotent stud, I will continue to be confused about numbers and how they relate.