Can BDGSDA be saved? - Page 5

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missbeeb

by missbeeb on 02 March 2010 - 09:03


Yeah, I agree on the leadership thing!  I really think we need a "Head Office" and nothing looks too obvious at the moment.  I understand, from several sources, that the BC meeting was disappointing... so, I'm hoping that the GSDP can be looked to? 

I don't doubt that things will change now, but I am severely disappointed with some of the Clubs that have signed, however, there's always the next "signing"... time for them to switch their allegiance.

 
It's certainly not the truth that I have a wee bit of a problem with facing the truth, Mackenzie and we all receive PMs, with a whole variety of content! 
 
I am no fence sitter, Mackenzie.  I've made my position perfectly clear... I will use the KC shows as suits me; they take my money, I owe them nothing. 
 
The wheels of change, grind but slowly!

by Zac on 02 March 2010 - 09:03

Actually Penny I DO get it.
I get that BDGSDA constitution states "the association is for the betterment of the breed" but the mandatory health testing you refer to is a separate issue. It is nothing to do with abiding by KC rules at dog shows! Exactly what is betterment and what is detriment is each individuals opinion.  Personally, I dont think there can be enough mandatory testing but, equally, I dont think it needs to be mandatory to be done.
Back to the matter in hand: BDGSDA members held a perfectly legitimate vote. They decided 'you got to be in it to win it' and so resigning was probably the  second worst thing you could have done. The worst being that you and your family should come on here trying to rally support for another meeting, offering to chair it when you have all just resigned! and fostering an attitude of 'them & us' in order to over turn the vote.
You could, of course, always form a branch of GSDLeague ............ thats a choice for you.


by Mackenzie on 02 March 2010 - 09:03

One thing is clear from you post MissBeeb and that is you are a fence sitter.  This is the time to decide where you want to be and make the a sacrifice, if necessary, to achieve what in your opinion is best for the breed.   To use the KC shows is supporting their position as a whole and with a more personal interest than the breed itself.   I accept what you said about Rome not being built in a day.  However, when it all went wrong Nero burnt it down in a day!

missbeeb

by missbeeb on 02 March 2010 - 09:03


That's what happens when you allow imbeciles to run the show, Mackenzie!  That's the KC's role imo.

Well, you're allowed your opinion... you think I'm a fence sitter, I disagree and since your opinion is of no real value to me, it matters not in the grand scheme of things.

 
Things are afoot here, I will give them my full support and hope that the KC signers see the light before the next signing.

by Blerio on 02 March 2010 - 09:03

Mo, Choice is not the name of the game! You're club had a choice in their vote, it went against you're views, but you didn't want to accept that, you were seeking to some how overturn the outcome. I'm trying to get a balanced view here. The K.C. have every right to be asked for permission to hold a non K.C. event because all the clubs are tied int the K.C. They have not said they will refuse. Mo I can understand the pull towards going to K.C. shows because for most of us it's been custom and practice for years. It will be a lot harder for some people to give up pot hunting than they will care to admit. The amount of people who allegedly have lost faith in the K.C. are getting less and less. Are the K.C. really being "Dictatorial and unfair" I've said many times, "It's their game, their bat and ball" so should we be surprised when they want to impose certain rules. Sue, You talk about, Restrictive, unfair, unworkable, If I felt that strongly about the K.C. I wouldn't dream of showing under those conditions. This is about principles, Sue, It's like someone threatening you're loved ones and then having a drink in a pub with them, because you have the Freedom of Choice. You will never convince the K.C. to change the way they do business. Personally I would love to see a number of clubs formulate a break away, established perhaps under wusv rules, a regional show every month, with a sieger show at the climax. I would never ever show at a K.C. event again, but I cant speak for the pot hunters. I have no problem with the K.C. I will still show the same way as I have always done. I don't want people trying to prove a point at shows because they cant get their own way with the K.C. The people who are screaming for Freedom of Choice should channel their efforts into doing what should have been done 20-30 years ago. Mackenzie, you're post says it all! Bill Owen.

hutch

by hutch on 02 March 2010 - 09:03

At the EC meeting of BDGSDA it was agreed that the association should NOT sign the KC undertaking. This was agreed because it was felt that the KC should continue to discuss their concerns and the solutions to them with the Breed Council, BAGSD and the League as appointed representatives of the breed. The Association did not want to break away from the KC and had no plans to set up shows under non-KC rules. It was felt that forfeiting CCs for the sake of pressurising the KC into dealing with the real health issues in the breed rather than the smoke screen which had been put up by the KC in the form of the underatking to divide and conquer. It was also agreed that this decision should be put before the AGM for ratification. As the matter was unknown to non-breed owners in the main I was asked at the EC meeting to make a presentation to the meeting.

I prepared the presentation including all of the KC Press Releases and fully intended to cover their stance on obedience CCs - which is nothing short of blackmail.

At the AGM, this was put as the last item on the agenda. When it came to the item the Secretary read out the KC undertaking (which had most people switched off within minutes) and then read the e-mail she had from the KC re obedience CCs and then concluded - we can't sign this as the club will fold. I then asked if I could address the meeting as had been agreed and was told to be quick as we did not have much time left. We were very naive in believing that the EC intended to stand by their decision and did not see that they were going to act in the way that they did. However, we felt that we should abide by the decision of the meeting. We did not, however, feel that we could work with the EC as our trust had been very badly damaged and so we resigned.

Once we had time to take in the events at the AGM we realised that an association which has as it's number one priority the betterment of the breed had made a decision based on the money it gets from its obedience shows - based on a totally unfair threat made by the KC. If you drill down into the Association's accounts you will see that without the obedience show or the breed show it would need hardly any money at all to cover its costs and it could concentrate on it's key objective.

This would not mean to stop obedience - it is for the betterment of the breed to have facilities for owners to ensure their dogs are socially responsible. You can justify having other breeds allowed associate membership to help support the branch numbers and make sure that they can be self financing. (We have two branches that are self-financing and one which struggles - but that is a whole other thread).

The Association has hosted the Junior Rally Day for two years which again is for the betterment of the breed - introducing youngsters to all of the activities which they can partake in with their dogs and hopefully finding a few who will fly the flag for the breed when we all become too old. This activity does not require Association funds as it is funded by generous donations from breed enthusiasts.

Breed Shows - perhaps we would have to decide not to run them anymore as it is almost impossible to break even on them currently. Perhaps this is a just use of Association funds?

We just find it so hard to accept that the vote at the AGM was either fair or constitutional. We have worked with this Association for thirty years and have been on the EC for most of that time - as many committee members will know it is a thankless task at the best of times.

Any action we take cannot just say "we do not like that decision so we are going to use unfair tactics to reverse it" We are going to have to go back to the roots of the organisation and say - is our breed in the right hands in Birmingham?

Shirley

 


by Penny on 02 March 2010 - 10:03

My view on this reflects all of the above posts in a little way.   I keep having to go back to the old word Choices.   Just to clarify my position.   I would LOVE to wake up one morning and be free of the KC - but to survive and set up with a better system i.e. SV - you have to do it in bite sized chunks.  We dont have the where-with-all and we havent found the exact leadership at present, or finances to set up a registration sytem, although I can say I am seeing a few leaders - real people who have the where-with-all as this goes on......and until the Sv have given their nod to us registering our dogs in Germany, then we must use the Somerset House system.    I think people like Mackenzie and Peterlee keep us on our toes, because they come up with things we dont want said, but which are thought provoking.  However, I do believe, that we will get there in the end, and where as a while back "Split from the KC" was the mode, it was found to be not the best "First Step".
to split, held too many large difficult and some impossible tasks immediately whilst keeping the show scene together for folk that love and enjoy it.  Therefore, we would have floundered for quite a while, and whilst floundering, peoples dogs are getting older.  Not everyone has kennels that they can pluck a nice winner out of every year, sometimes, its a chance in a lifetime, and if we cant move on quickly, and expediently, to show people that we CAN and WILL have a good showscene worth having, then we will fail.   so I think, for my reasons certainly, that was why l put to bed the break away from the KC in one action to be done right away
Since then the KC have shown their true colours again and there is not an orgainsation in the UK more worth breaking away from - however, we have learned, we have listened to each other and we now have the foolproof system, of CHOICE.  I am certainly not advocating that we all go down the route of "which type of show shall we go to this week-end"  and toss a coin.  If there is a show under WUSV rules that will be the place for me - and for sure, I shall not be collecting schedules like I used to,  i.e. Blackpool, Southern Counties etcetc and these have just been mentioned randomly.  We all know what shows we always attended as the Gen Ch committees did us a good judge, but however, if I respect the judge  at a KC run  show - then I will exercise my right to go under that judge.  Just as Peterlee said about worthless Champions was the exact words I said at the AGM< - my Champion female is - without her SV qualifications behind her - no better than Joe`s dog next door, as the KC dont recognise that she is Fit For Purpose - so I totally agree with Peterlee, I wouldnt be going to the KC run show to particularly make up a Ch - I would be going to support and enjoy that particular judge who I would have great respect for - as that judge will be joining our system - for sure.
Peterlee, forgive that I havent got back to you personally re the constitution, I will explain why when I mail you this evening, but your work on this is very much appreciated, and more like you would be taking us nearer and nearer far quicker. I hope that others can see why we cant immediately leave Clarges St - I hope that faith will be paramount in what is being done, and the fact that we have this forum - despised by some - but very useful for debates like this for all - then it is going to happen.  25th April is the beginning and the Scottish PGSD had a lively, fruiteful and well attended meeting - the Midlands will be next to follow.
Look at Peterlee`s quote of the BAGSD constitution, and one would wonder why some of us used our shoe leather on getting a fair and square democratic vote for all members.  

by Penny on 02 March 2010 - 10:03

By the Way  -  I hope that like minded people will read into the above posts, that I will narrow my own choices down when the SV WUSV system is up and running - the K.C shows will hold nothing if we could have monthly ortesgruppen - quarterly landesgruppen - leading to the British Seiger proper......  Mo.

by Mackenzie on 02 March 2010 - 10:03

Good post Mo, especially your comment that you will narrow down your choices as things progress.   Although that comment differs from own opinion it is at least going in the right direction.  With regard to supporting judges I would hope to see that judges would  be helpful to the breed when accepting appointments, particularly when being invited to officiate at KC controlled "All Breed Shows".   It would be helpful on these occasions to decline the invitation when appropiate and possibly contribute to a higher entry on their next apppointment.  It would also send out a clear message to the KC.

Mackenzie

jaymesie51

by jaymesie51 on 02 March 2010 - 11:03

Mackenzie what i will say is whatever happens in this country re ur GSD breed will not affect you in any way but it will affect me and countless others who show are club members and also breed a litter or 2 me and  these countless others pay into this system via entrys subscriptions and donations where as you do not so even though what you might have to say is a valid point or not makes no difference to me because you do not live here you, contribute nothing to the breed in this country, so it does not make a difference to you as it cant harm your hobby, but it will harm my hobby and the breed in this country so i take it very seriously indeed, if i choose to show at KC shows and LG shows that is my choice to make it does not make me or the other people who do so hypocrite's or fence sitters all it means is we can keep on with our hobby and when their are enough LG shows up and running then my choice will be to show at these type of shows only, as i prefer my dogs to be health tested sound in mind and body then being at a show where all the other dogs are the same means that our breed is going in the right direction where as at the KC shows a dog with hd-ed-heam-epilepsy etc can and does win the top award at the moment that is what we have here but that will change and the sooner the better
jim h





 


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