Kick in the face...GSDCA hosting the WUSV? - Page 5

 
You said: "Ever tried to get a tracking title with AKC? First, you have to certify (hiring a judge) to even enter. Then, you show up on the appointed day, and you have to draw to see IF you are going to be able to track at all. I attended one AKC TD one year and a person who had entered and travelled all the way from Alaska to Washington State did NOT get to track. Because you enter does not mean you get to play. I don't know, but I suspect that schutzhund as an AKC activity would end up being handled the same way, if AKC became the domain for schutzhund in this country."

I say:
Actually, that is not at all accurate. The judge is not "hired," but conducts certifications as part of his or her commitment to the sport, and most won't even take expenses for their time and trouble.The draw for entry is completed in public and with notice a week or more prior to the test ( they are called tests, not trials, as they are pass/fail) If you are notfied that you are an alternate, you may get a track if  regular entrants fail to show up, so it is your choice whether to take that chance. If you  are drawn  you are notified well in advance of the test, and will get your track.
 There are many reasons for the certification and draw process. Unlike schutzhund where  very very short  predictable tracks are laid close together on  even fields. it takes approximately 8 acres to lay ONE TD track for a test. It is difficult enough to get enough land for a test, and expensive for clubs to put on as they must engage two judges and pay their travel expenses so  rather than allowing people to enter who may not have trained their dogs at all, thus taking  a space from someone who has, dogs must demonstrate that they can track in similar conditions prior to  being allowed to enter. Once a dog earns a TD it may enter TDX or VST tests any time without further certification.
 Before succumbing to such hysterical misinterpretations, it would behoove you to actually read the rules and regs which are posted for free on the AKC Web site.   For your information, many schutzhund titled dogs cannot pass a TD certification, as it requires the dog to actually be able to find the corners and indicate the article at the end without  help from the handler.

As only very informed people ever respond here, I realize listing my CV is unnecessary, however for those who are curious, yes I have titled 15 dogs in SchH, (  6 of them SchH3) won or placed at regional and North American Fh championships,  Fh2 with 99 points and numerous TDs and Fhs and TDX. 
jmo

AKC does NOT recognize schutzhund titles, which is why you  see no schutzhund titles on any AKC registration papers.  Here is what they say about temporarily "recognizing" titles from other organizations (note which organization's titles  would NOT be recognized):

www.akc.org/pdfs/rulebooks/RES600.pdf

"For a period of five years following the adoption date of the WDS program, a dog may enter directly in the WDS program provided the entrant possesses proof of a previously awarded degree of BH, SchH/VPG I, II or III under a VDH or SV Foreign judge and provided the title has been sanctioned by organizations recognized by the AKC"

After reading these posts all i can say is that i am lucky to be living in Belgium as i am interested in the Schutzund Sport, Living in the USA or the UK and being in the sport is not at all a happy time for the real enthusiast and i am very lucky not to be having the same issues as you Guys
Steve,

Yes, I have found it an "interesting" go trying to do sport here.  I am often envious of European situations.

Regarding AKC tracks, these tracks take up a lot of land.  The novice level track is Sch3 length, the next is closer to FH length.  While available land may not be an issue is some places, I don't think a there are many schutzhund clubs that could take all who entered if everyone was TR3 and FH.  Limited entry is the only way to handle  it and a draw the most fair approach.

How does GSDCA propose to run this event?  They do not have experience at this.   I have found even companion events at GSDCA shows  less than well done.  What support system will they have?  I'm more than concerned....egads.

Come on people when was the last time the SV did any thing that really supported the working shepherd to the standard? why does this suprise anyone.

You said: " AKC does NOT recognize schutzhund titles, which is why you see no schutzhund titles on any AKC registration papers. Here is what they say about temporarily "recognizing" titles from other organizations (note which organization's titles would NOT be recognized):"


I say: Recognizing and putting on pedigrees are not the same thing. Of course they "recognize" schutzhund titles. I entered at the WD3 level because my dog already had schh3, and when he qualified I received a title certificate from AKC that looks like all my others for obedience, herding, tracking etc.. AKC has been around a long time and does things more slowly, so when they find that the WDS program is truly adopted and functioning, they will start adding the titles to pedigrees. You have to understand that there are hundreds of breeds recognized in AKC and they all have their own  various titles and tests. Herding, earthdog, lure coursing etc all have different designations which were established using the same process.

 All the armchair AKC bashers should realize that no one "has" to register their dog with AKC.  If you find the organization offers no benefits, then don't use it. But if you want to show in FCI sport in Europe and your dog was bred in the USA, you will need AKC papers. There are no others recognized from the US .
No one can "steal" schutzhund, or "take it over." If USA/DVG/WDA etc want to offer trials and people want to attend them, there is nothing AKC can do about it. Why would you care if  your title appeared on an AKC pedigree if AKC is such an evil
useless organization?
I think the WDS program will falter for different reasons. The people in charge are placing unwise unrealistic restrictions on the trials and trial helper work, and so far here in CA, the chosen "teaching helpers" which must certify trial helpers are incompetent crooks whom few good helpers want to work with. They SHOULD 'grandfather in" qualified helpers from other organizations, but David Landau is very short sighted about this and it will be the downfall of the program imo.

Oh God... the GSDCA will be ruining this! OOPS... I meant running this! They WANT CONTROL! Their shows are down money wise, and most probably, they will use the GERMAN DOG  for this venue. BUT.... otherwise hate ANYTHING that looks anything like German dogs.

GSDCA will ruin this!

"Why would you care if your title appeared on an AKC pedigree if AKC is such an evil useless organization?"

Speaking for myself, I would care because a SchH title means something and I would want it listed.  I think that people are afraid (and with good reason, based on past experience with AKC) that since AKC is anti-biting sports, AKC will water down SchH and that a WDS title will NOT be as good as a SchH title.  That in fact it will simply be a watered down "token" of what it is supposed to show.

Also, I know I don't *have* to register my dogs with AKC, but since it is *the* premier dog registration agency in the USA, I want my dogs registered there.  As you say, it is the internationally recognized U.S. registry.

But you're a good person to ask.  You've done both.  How do the WDS titles compare with SchH?  Is it equal? Easier to pass? Harder?

Having shown different breeds in AKC conformation and obedience competition for a LONG time, I consider myself a supporter of AKC, and I would love to be able to include a SchH title on my dogs names when I enter them in AKC competition.   Yes, it would probably freak out some people to see that and they'd throw a fit.  But they need to get over it (LOL).

As is included in my quote they even state they are TEMPORARILY recognizing schutzhund titles so that those people who wish to participate in the beginning who's dogs are schutzhund titled  will not have to start at the bottom.

As you already stated in fact you do have to register dogs born in this country with AKC, if you want to leave the door open to possibly compete at the  National and/or International level.  I would be pleased as punch if there was another legitimate organization I could register my dog through, but of course, AKC sees to it that there isn't.

Removing the control of the WUSV event from WDA was  a boner move on the part of AKC GSDCA.  Trying to reinvent the wheel with this WDS program is an example of AKC arrogance.  Refusing to recognize legitimate schutzhund titles on pedigrees, but  recognizing WDS titles is an example of AKC hypocrisy.  Nice.

Here is a link  to the "events results" page of AKC WDS:  http://www.akc.org/events/working_dog_sport/wds_events_results.cfm   They list a total of 3 trials for 2009, 2 of which have not yet been held.  In 2008 they show they held a total of 8 trials and in 2007 they held 4 trials.  If they think they are qualified to hold the premier world schutzhund event for GSDs in the year 2013 they are delusional and this will likely prove to be  a giant step backwards as far as any legitimacy the USA has earned in the eyes of the rest of the schutzhund world community.