Teaching the "fuss" - Page 5

 Thanks for the input. I also sow something on the Leerburg site where they were baiting in place with food, and had the leash around the handlers back to keep the dog in place. Looked like they were keeping eye contact and keeping them in place at the same time.

Thanks again, especially to those of you that were actually providing feedback, and not arguing!

I don't have a TD so I've just been experimenting with different methods to see what works for my dog. I found one that works really well for keeping him focused on my face and in position WHILE walking...it sounds kind of strange but the method involves spitting/dropping the treats to the dog from your mouth...haha and obviously you want a treat that isn't disgusting. I use small pieces of hot dog. It's improved his focus overall as well, not just for "fuss". Strange method, but it works. I agree that corrections also have a place but not until the dog understands the command

gsdsports

"Happy feet" happens when the dog is at a fuss and is looking up at your face.  More weight is transfered to the rear end of the dog and the front end is lifted a bit, causing a slightly higher stepping action. If the dogs looks straight up there's much less "crabbing" because the dog is straight looking up instead of sideways or back at you.

If you look at Balabanov's dogs they have "happy feet'........

We are progressing, but reteaching seems to take forever! She understands "watch" and is able to go about 20 or so steps before looking down before looking up again. And at a very nice heel position.....better then nothing.

Spitting food does well, but Sita cannot catch, any other suggestions?

As far as Retrieve, we're not there yet.........still working on BH,  ........but Balabanov has a great CD. We are doing some of the holding drills right with some progress. That guy makes it look so easy.

She doesn't "understand" or she would not look away or look down for as long as she is heeling,  let alone 20 feet.  Go back to her sitting in basic position.  Have people walk around and make distraction noises.  If she looks at them then she still doesn't get it.  You have to have her first understand correct basic position BEFORE you can think about moving into heeling.  The very bottom of your foundation is not good yet. 

Talk to your training director.  Get a coach.  We can't explain or teach timing, when to correct or not, and how strong, when to verbally reward or bait to a novice, you need someone to physically show you  this stuff and watch you to teach you first.  We don't know what kind of drives your dog has or anything. 

The internet is good for people who already have training experience  to get additional ideas and tips, but it's not going to help someone who doesn't understand even the basics to achieve even club  competition level heeling.

gdssport - I'm not giving advice, I'm just trying to explain what I'm doing, looking for advice..........sorry you don't like the term, "happy feet" but is what my trainer calls it and her dogs (gsd and rot) are top obedience and rally dogs.

sueincc - thank you, I will do this. She does look at my face somewhat closely when in basic, but I see that she could be much better. We will work even harder, until she completely understands. - thanks

It seems that fuss needs to be in drive or it lacks intensity, and instead looks like the dog is doing it in resentment.....not a nice picture.(Which is were we were before, resentment and avoidance actually).

The other day my husband took Hero out back for an off leash run without Sita, Sita was besides her self, crying at the door and acting a complete spoild brat.
 
I called her to fuss and omg she came right into basic position and look at me. As soon as I took a step, she bolted for the door. I called her again and she came again, we took about 3 steps and she bolted again. I called her again she did it right around the house and all the way to the door. I let her out and she ran like the wind to catch up, I didn't realize she could cover ground so quickly.

This was a great training exersise for me.  Sita was extremey excited and I was able to keep her attention in a fuss for a little while.  There for a few moments, very few, she actually looked like a top dog........gave me the slightest glimmer of hope.

Yes I was surprised, she was hysterical and she came anyway. Maybe something that I'm doing is working......

I said at using compulsion and a prong collar didn't work to "teach" Sita fuss. Instead it caused resentment and avoidance. I said that using positive enforcement to "teach" seems to work better. I also said there is a time to use a prong collar and compulsion.

Right now I can call Sita at any time and she will come and assume the "basic position focusing on my face". Around the house, her off, leash accuracy is about 80%, the rest of the time she is close, but not close enough. Maybe she understands enough to incorporate a prong collar and expect perfection....she needs to realize that I expect her focus on me even with distractions. That is where we're at right now. Retraining isn't much fun.

My new trainer is a perfectionist, she wants our next BH showing to look professional. Our next club trial isn't for while, I'm in no hurry, I'd rather get it right then to fail again and besides I want us to look really good this time. She will tell me when we're ready.


happyday;
When we went out for BH, I was very mad about something and didn't check my emotion at the gate. Sita,of course, thought it was her. Because of this, and because we really weren't ready we failed. I wasn't told the the long down was without a tie down, nor was I told the four foot leash is to be lead in left hand only. Sita was upset and confused. She broke her long down to come and 'make up", she wouldn't stay close during on leash heeling because the eight foot leash was inbetween us. As we progressed I of course became even more enraged, not at Sita but at not being told these things, she was so stressed she stopped and pee'ed on the field. She actually did a very good job with off leash heeling. The high point of the whole BH was at the end when she came running to my so fast she ran right into me and almost knocked me down, again coming to "make up". Looking back, it was so bad, it was comical. Knowing what I know now, I should have scratched long before taking the field. Live and learn.

Great informative thread.

Happyday, you  have one of the most beautiful dogs I have seen, I just had to comment.