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by vandykan on 26 January 2012 - 04:01
I am sad that I didn't see the post earlier. i am laid off currently and would have taken him in and worked with him. I live only a couple hours from the romulus airport. Just because it killed a few animals doesn't mean something is wrong with it. My dog killed my sisters goat but it was one of the best dog I ever had. My mom taught it how to herd the mean little beast because she had trouble getting it back in the fence. goat started to ignore swats on the butt so he decided to bite it in the nose. the goat listened for a little while and decided to ignore it. my mom didnt correct him. he started to bite harder before and we discovered goats can't handle the stress. bye bye goat. I felt sorry for the goat but it had an extreme mean streak in him so wasn't to broken hearted.
I have had several police officers very insistent that he was a police dog as he is nicely putting jail bait individuals in perfect bark & hold at my parents house. people thought big wide field with woods behind right in town were perfect place to flee from police officers. As soon as officers would handcuff the individual they were chasing, he then would turn around just walk away back to us to continue his nap. A former military & police k-9 handler thought he was the best german shepherd that he met. minor detail that he was getting bed soars at 6 months old because he was lazy. he also bit my brothers friend in the butt. the only thing we think of is that he thought my 5 yr old nieice was in danger. brothers friend was mowing lawn next to her when he ran up and bit him and chased him around the yard. He never even lifted up his head let alone bark at him before this incident or after.

by ShelleyR on 26 January 2012 - 05:01
Well, mine isn't... Arco isn't that good-looking, and we are talking about a dog here, not a potential serial killer cutting his teeth on animals before he moves up the food chain to murdering children. Different species, no comparison. Sorry LoveforBrittany, but you dialed yourself out of the credibility circle IMO with that analogy. No working dogs for you. Stick with soft, low-drive dogs, and cats of course.
I am sorry about the cat. I like cats, had them most of my life and likely will again one day. But many, if not most working line dogs with a healthy amount of prey drive, not familiarized/neutralized with cats, would kill one given the chance. That goes for birds, rodents, reptiles and some insects too. The only reason my old dog T hasn't wiped out the cat population that migrates along the top of the fence in the backyard is he's is too old and crippled to catch them. If she wasn't so much smaller than a cat, my Chihuahua would probably have a go at them too. I cannot hold that, or snapping at a stranger who grabbed him when it was in a state of high alert, as reason to deem Arco a dangerous dog. Hell. I've seen certified assistance dogs nail veterinary hospital staff for less and no one held it against them.
As for washing out as a detection dog... Heck, damned few K9 prospects make that cut. It takes a really special dog to alert to explosives with a calm sit indication and not blow the entire site to smithereens. No shame there. Doesn't make it any less of a dog either.
I posted what I did here because, unlike the fine folks who are commited to the tireless process of rescueing animals, and the well-intentioned people who adopt from typical rescue organizations, there ARE people on this board who DO understand and appreciate such a dog, and ARE capable of handling same.
Again, it was never my intention to insult a cat owner, start a war, misrepresent a dog not in my care, encourage an inexperienced handler to adopt a dog that might prove too much for them, OR bring bad publicity for the gentle people who worked so hard on his behalf.
I hope Arco does return to and stay in AZ with expereinced handlers.
Meanswhile, I hope more people will rise to the occasions for more of the really nice GSD's, Mal's, [insert your breed of choice here]
by LoveForBrittany on 26 January 2012 - 15:01
I am simply saying that I ACTUALLY KNOW this particular animal. And I KNOW he is dangerous. Someone, who helped transport him the first time he went to AZ, knew him and posted on the Huffington Post article with me and agreed with me. It seems that the only people who disagree are those who don't know him or those who were directly involved with the irresponsibility in his handling (of course, because they don't want to take any actual responsibility for the situation and his behavior)
I had a friend who owned a South African Boerboel (a type of mastiff dog) and that dog fiercely loved her- and to her he was sweet and nice- but he put burn marks on her arms one time from pulling his leash trying to attack someone- so as much as she loved him, she did the responsible thing and put the dog down. He never actually hurt anyone but she KNEW him, and she KNEW he was dangerous. It was sad- heartbreaking- but responsible.
Noone- who has owned Arco to this point (except for maybe Capitol Police who did the right thing in getting rid of him because they knew he wouldn't make a good bomb dog) has been even remotely responsible with him. And I say that even of the rescue, because I really think that there was a stipulation in his court order which stated that he was not to be adopted out again.

by Jenni78 on 26 January 2012 - 16:01
I don't think he is attractive, frankly. Not my cup of tea at all. I didn't even realize there was a pic of him until I went looking for it. Washed out, average looking, not very well bred GSD. Nothing exciting. But, for you to think that my response was based on looks and not WHAT I KNOW OF WORKING LINE/DOG BEHAVIOR pretty much sums up my point; he might be "dangerous" if he continues to be handled by idiots (not calling you, personally, an idiot).
"Mishandled" means mishandled...ie, PERMITTED TO KILL A CAT and GET LOOSE and BITE STRANGERS TRYING TO CATCH HIM. It does NOT mean mistreated "as a puppy." LOL I was in no way alleging he was abused or anything else, lol. That's typical pet rescue rhetoric for what most of us would call a "genetic POS". He has been put in all these situations by careless or inexperienced HUMANS. He has done nothing that is out of the ordinary for canine behavior. He is not a diplomat; he is a dog. As such, the HUMAN in charge needs to bear the responsibility for his actions. Again, maybe there IS something wrong with him, but you've yet to give one example of anything that suggests that.
Your citing of your wiggle-butt Dobe as a high drive dog is not helping your case here. Your Boerboel story is equally not impressive. The responsible thing is for people who can't handle those dogs not to get them in the first place, not kill them when the inevitable happens. If you cannot handle a leashed dog, perhaps a fish is a better pet? I feel NO SYMPATHY whatsoever for someone who gets a dog like a Boerboel and puts people at risk like that, then betrays the dog by killing it for being what it is. Absolutely disgusting and in no way excusable. What's "heartbreaking" is that there are people out there who will blame the animal for its nature rather than take pesonal responsibility for the actions of their animals and protect their animals- this means keeping them away from situations where they will get into trouble. The Boerboel was failed by his owner. Betrayed in the worst way. Arco hasn't fared much better.

by ShelleyR on 26 January 2012 - 17:01
He wouldn't have been turned loose in the back yard with a decrepit 16 yr. old cat either.
But that's just me. I don't like gambling on short odds.
Jenni pegged our bitter, cat-mourning poster pretty well above. I, myself, have little tolerance for people who pretend to know anything about high-drive working dogs; a description typically not applied to over-size, bouncy, wiggly-butt Dobermans, (I do like some of the better-bred Dobermans, even better than I like cats, BTW ;-) few of which can even manage to pass ANY type of working title or certification. I have even less patience with those ignorant people condemning a dog they don't understand anything about. Sorry non-expert cat mourner. You clearly don't know squat about working dogs. The more you post, the more obvious that fact is to those of who DO have expertise on the subject.
Yawn.
WTF is a Boerboel? It sounds like something more suited for use between a couple pieces of sourdough bread, with mayo and mustard, than a candidate for any K9 service I am familiar with, but I am guessing it is a draft-horse type of dog, bred and used for tying to some item of value, for the purpose of insuring that item doesn't disappear when the owner of said item is not looking. Brains optional.
I do not call that a working dog any more than my flying insect obsessed Chihuahua a hunting dog.
Don't throw the dog out with the cat carcass. No reason to make the unfortunate event a double tragedy.

by ShelleyR on 26 January 2012 - 17:01
by hexe on 26 January 2012 - 18:01

by Jenni78 on 26 January 2012 - 19:01
For the record, I'm a cat fan, myself.
by LoveForBrittany on 26 January 2012 - 23:01
by LoveForBrittany on 26 January 2012 - 23:01
AKC MEET THE BREEDS®: Doberman Pinscher
A square, medium-sized dog, the Doberman Pinscher is muscular and possesses great endurance and speed. He is elegant in appearance and reflects great nobility and temperament. The properly bred and trained Doberman has proved itself to be a friend and guardian, and his intelligence and ability to absorb and retain training have brought him into demand as a police and war dog. The Doberman’s short, hard coat can be black, red, blue and fawn.
A Look Back
Although the roots of the breed are relatively obscure, it is thought that the Doberman Pinscher originated in Germany around 1900, taking its name from tax collector Louis Dobermann of Apolda, who desired a medium size dog to perform as a guard dog as well as companion. Breeds utilized to develop the Doberman Pinscher may have included the old shorthaired shepherd, Rottweiler, Black and Tan Terrier and the German Pinscher.
Right Breed for You?
The Doberman Pinscher is known to be energetic, watchful, fearless and obedient. He is ready to give prompt alarm (and back up that warning) but is also affectionate, obedient and loyal. The breed requires regular exercise, but needs only minimal grooming for his short coat.
If you are considering purchasing a Doberman Pinscher puppy, learn more here.
- Working Group; AKC recognized in 1908.
- Ranging in size from 24 to 28 inches tall at the shoulder.
- Guardian, family companion.
But you're right- I'm the one who doesn't know squat about working dogs.
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