This is a placeholder text
Group text
by CrysBuck25 on 26 November 2010 - 00:11
Ziegenfarm, I don't think that's what Wanderer was saying, although I could be wrong. I'm with you...I love all wildlife, but if they are damaging my property, I can and will defend it to the last breath.
Around here, it's not the wolf that is a problem, nor coyote, but in fact moose. Moose are protected, very few tags issued on the lottery system. They destroy fruit trees, and can wreak havoc on landscaping. God forbid you should have a dog outside...THey seem to really dislike dogs, and can do serious damage to vehicles, etc when they are unhappy.
They can trample your dog to death, but you can't kill them unless they are actively threatening a human being. Don't know if that's the same issue with wolves? But F&G brought up a few boxes of rubber shotgun slugs, to be used on the moose. The problem is, we are not to shoot at the head or ribs, only the quarters, as head or rib shots "may" kill the moose. You shoot them in the quarters and they startle and run ten feet, then look at you in confusion. What's a human to do?
Crys
Around here, it's not the wolf that is a problem, nor coyote, but in fact moose. Moose are protected, very few tags issued on the lottery system. They destroy fruit trees, and can wreak havoc on landscaping. God forbid you should have a dog outside...THey seem to really dislike dogs, and can do serious damage to vehicles, etc when they are unhappy.
They can trample your dog to death, but you can't kill them unless they are actively threatening a human being. Don't know if that's the same issue with wolves? But F&G brought up a few boxes of rubber shotgun slugs, to be used on the moose. The problem is, we are not to shoot at the head or ribs, only the quarters, as head or rib shots "may" kill the moose. You shoot them in the quarters and they startle and run ten feet, then look at you in confusion. What's a human to do?
Crys
by wanderer on 26 November 2010 - 03:11
Not a fatalistic view at all, just the broader perspective. Should not be interpreted beyond what was said. If you need to protect what is yours, just do it. You should do what you must do to preserve your way of life. In the long term view, what each of us do as individuals will fade into history and even a hundred years from now, no one will even know who we were.
by 4pack on 26 November 2010 - 06:11
Daryl, I'm with you and all, but that story doesn't prove wolves attack humans. No human was touched. They were after the elk and horses, not men walking alone.
by eichenluft on 26 November 2010 - 06:11
wolf attacks on humans are well-documented. Much like being struck by lightning - if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time, might happen. Probably won't - pretty slim chance in fact. and probably isn't because the wolves are "hunting" you with intent. But there are always excuses to kill things we humans can't control or are afraid of.
molly
molly
by darylehret on 26 November 2010 - 12:11
The pack abandoned the elk carcass that fell from the horse, and pursued the horses and men under gunfire for 200 yards. Pretty aggressive in my book, not taken to flight for sure.
We've conditioned them to no longer be afraid of humans. Just two weeks ago the Delta Conservation District Executive Director was treed by a pack of wolves, and call it a lightning strike if you please.....it is NOT avoidance behavior. It might not be "hunting you with intent", but it was without question predatory behavior!
We've conditioned them to no longer be afraid of humans. Just two weeks ago the Delta Conservation District Executive Director was treed by a pack of wolves, and call it a lightning strike if you please.....it is NOT avoidance behavior. It might not be "hunting you with intent", but it was without question predatory behavior!
"When I saw them, I stopped a good 50 to 60 yards away. What I didn't notice, however, was one very large wolf beginning to angle his way toward me from behind," said Mattson.
It wasn't until after he heard the snarling and growling from behind that he realized the
situation he was in.
Utilizing basic survival skills in relation to encounters with wildlife, Mattson began yelling and screaming at the animal and making himself appear larger - a bluff to make the animal leave.
"These wolves didn't leave at all. It appeared as if they had no fear of humans at all," said Mattson.
by darylehret on 26 November 2010 - 12:11
Even in a region where there is a long history of "management practices" on wolves...
Alaska wildlife agents to kill wolves near Anchorage
The Alaska Department of Fish and Game is preparing to cull wolves from packs that are becoming more aggressive and worrying residents near east Anchorage and Eagle River.
The wolves are showing they are losing their fear of humans, regional supervisor Mark Burch told the Anchorage Daily News.
On Halloween, a pet beagle was dragged off at an Eagle River home and the next day the owner found a bloody spot in the snow with wolf prints. A few days later a neighbor found a wolf on her deck.
"When a pack of wolves is literally scouting a neighborhood and has dragged off a family's pet from their backyard, I think it is fair to expect something to be done about it, in a swift, effective manner," Eagle River resident Candis Olmstead wrote in a letter to the Alaska Department of Fish and Game.
"I really hope that an action plan to eliminate this problem will be acted upon before another pet - or God forbid, a child - is killed."
Two wolf packs roam each side of the Glenn Highway, Burch said.
He estimates the west-side group, known as the Elmendorf pack, has four to six adults with pups while the east-side group, know as the Ship Creek pack, has at least six adults.
In February, state biologists put radio collars on two wolves; one is still intact and transmitting. It shows the smaller wolf pack ranging from Ship Creek to near Peters Creek, he said. Normally, the animals stay on Fort Richardson land but sometimes venture off.
"These particular wolves are showing a pattern where they're losing a fear of humans. We're getting more reports of problems with pets. They're showing aggression," Burch said. "We're not taking a wait-and-see attitude."
by eichenluft on 26 November 2010 - 13:11
it's a lot of drama, to create more excuses to kill wolves. Alaska already kills thousands of wolves - from airplanes in fact (how cowerdly is that) with their "predator management" plan - with the purpose of making sure big-game hunters get their big game without any conflict from wolves.
drama = "the wolf dragged the pet beagle out of the back yard" when really - noone saw an animal "drag the poor dog from the back yard" - they found a bloody spot with wolf tracks. the beagle probably wandered off, as beagles are known to do - but that wouldn't be enough drama, or reason to kill the bad wolf who "dragged" the dog out of the back yard. The wolf "didn't appear afraid" so therefore it wasn't afraid at all, and was actively hunting the guy who had to climb a tree - perhaps the poor guy was near the packs' kill, or den with pups? but no need to actually find out the truth or even the probable truth before making more drama for the newspaper - after all, reporters always tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth, no drama at all, right?????
right.
molly
by darylehret on 26 November 2010 - 19:11
"Alaska already kills thousands of wolves - from airplanes in fact"
Annually? Sounds quite a stretch to me, as if you're calling the kettle black. Supposedly there's about 4,000 wolves in the United States, and around 1,700 of which are in the tri-state area (MT,ID,WY), and the rest in the Great Lakes upper peninsula, Alaska, and other places. Plenty of room for "these thousands" in Alaska to avoid people, but they choose NOT to.
Annually? Sounds quite a stretch to me, as if you're calling the kettle black. Supposedly there's about 4,000 wolves in the United States, and around 1,700 of which are in the tri-state area (MT,ID,WY), and the rest in the Great Lakes upper peninsula, Alaska, and other places. Plenty of room for "these thousands" in Alaska to avoid people, but they choose NOT to.
by Red Sable on 26 November 2010 - 19:11
I have a 76 year old Uncle, who goes off into the forest way up North every year for a month or more at a time. He has been doing this for many years now. I asked him if he was afraid of bears or wolves, and he said "not any more".
His closest experience with a pack of wolves was one night they surrounded his little tent and he could hear them. They were not more than 6 feet away. He said they started howling, and the alpha wolf made strange deep grunting sounds that in his opinion, were very much a warning to him to get out of their territory. They were there about half an hour. The next day he packed up and left.
He goes alone, with nothing to protect himself.
He's gutsy, much more so than me.
His closest experience with a pack of wolves was one night they surrounded his little tent and he could hear them. They were not more than 6 feet away. He said they started howling, and the alpha wolf made strange deep grunting sounds that in his opinion, were very much a warning to him to get out of their territory. They were there about half an hour. The next day he packed up and left.
He goes alone, with nothing to protect himself.
He's gutsy, much more so than me.
by eichenluft on 26 November 2010 - 23:11
In Alaska, where they have a "predator control" program - where they shoot wolves and bear from airplanes after running them to exhaustion - they are nowhere near people, they don't bother people - they don't attack people. They do bother elk and moose and other big-game animals that the big-game hunters want to shoot though - hence the drama and stories and embellishments about how dangerous the big bad wolves are and how they must be killed to "control" them. Bullshit. And this story-telling is exactly how wolves were wiped out - completely, yes - eliminated - because of people's fears without base in reality.
So where are the facts - Daryl I know you like to deal with facts and not story telling and drama, right? so where are those facts - about wolves who are actively hunting humans as a source of food - not their pets, not their livestock - but humans. What humans were attacked because the wolves were hunting them - not defending their young or dens, not cornered or attacked first - not injured or encountered in a surprise moment - but attacked due to a wolf actively intending to attack a human. Let's see the data.
as for livestock and pets - people who live in an area with large predators, must know the risk to pets and livestock. If you live in an area with coyotes, you will lose your outside cats and maybe small dogs too. If you live in an area with wolves or bear - you will lose your outside dogs and possibly livestock. So, people take measures to protect their pets and livestock if you live in an area with larger predators. And, when INDIVIDUAL animals become a problem (not afraid of humans, consistant nuisance animals) then those INDIVIDUAL animals are relocated or euthanized. It is a program that works - no need to drum up fear about a creature that normally wants nothing to do with humans or their pets or livestock - as long as they have enough land and natural prey to live on, leave them alone and they will not be a problem as a whole species.
So where are the facts - Daryl I know you like to deal with facts and not story telling and drama, right? so where are those facts - about wolves who are actively hunting humans as a source of food - not their pets, not their livestock - but humans. What humans were attacked because the wolves were hunting them - not defending their young or dens, not cornered or attacked first - not injured or encountered in a surprise moment - but attacked due to a wolf actively intending to attack a human. Let's see the data.
as for livestock and pets - people who live in an area with large predators, must know the risk to pets and livestock. If you live in an area with coyotes, you will lose your outside cats and maybe small dogs too. If you live in an area with wolves or bear - you will lose your outside dogs and possibly livestock. So, people take measures to protect their pets and livestock if you live in an area with larger predators. And, when INDIVIDUAL animals become a problem (not afraid of humans, consistant nuisance animals) then those INDIVIDUAL animals are relocated or euthanized. It is a program that works - no need to drum up fear about a creature that normally wants nothing to do with humans or their pets or livestock - as long as they have enough land and natural prey to live on, leave them alone and they will not be a problem as a whole species.
Contact information Disclaimer Privacy Statement Copyright Information Terms of Service Cookie policy ↑ Back to top